Andy95W

Exactly. It's just like AN bolts. If your A&P said that he replaced your engine mounts, and used bolts that were not standard aviation parts but "met the standards" of AN bolts, how would you feel about it? I personally don't care what an owner does or does not install on his own airplane, but I know where I draw the line on mine.

Ah, the signs of age: -tinnitus -reading glasses -getting up in the middle of the night to pee.

Same here.

Like always, Anthony, a great synopsis. I will clarify, though- when I bought my first M20C in 1992, I was a Private Pilot with a very fresh instrument rating and only about 125 hours total. That first Mooney taught me a lot!

Yes, you make a good point about the car, but I'll counter it with an M20C is an airplane. It flies like an airplane. And now you've made me feel as though I must've cheated death by not having 10 hours of dual with Don Kaye 27 years ago. Maybe I should schedule with him soon just to be on the safe side. But seriously, I know of airplanes that are difficult to fly or have bad reputations. Most with good reason. I just don't think that older Mooneys are in that group, and I ain't no Chuck Yeager. And finally, I will always agree that a Mooney-specific checkout is worth the money. But I don't think a new owner is cheating death or destruction if he doesn't have it. He will have to do a lot of work and study on his own to get to the same level of expertise and safety.

Okay, I guess I'll be contrarian again. When I bought my first Mooney in 1992, my 5 hours insurance checkout (and complex signoff) was with a CFI friend who had zero Mooney time. But I viewed that checkout as having a license to learn, just like the Private Pilots License. I learned the best instrument procedures by flying with safety pilots. I learned how to land well by doing a lot of landings. Would a Mooney-specific instructor have eased that transition? Sure. Was it essential? Obviously not. Maybe it's this day and age of helicopter parenting and over protection that has affected all of this. My car is more complex than an M20C, for God's sake. Maybe someone can tell me that what is so important (or different) about flying a Mooney from any other of @Jim Peace "lawnmowers with wings".

Maybe it was those fancy new seats that got them to go flying with you...

I still think my 1964 cowling looks better than my '67, but the screws are a huge PITA. My '64 is also appreciably faster, but not sure why. I actually had more mods on my '67.

Obviously 2 different schools of thought. I'm with Erik.

Maybe there was a Comanche 400 taxiing to the fuel pump, and he didn't want to wait an hour for him to refuel...

I won't knock another man's wife or airplane. I think it looks great, and I'm glad you're happy with it!

⬆️⬆️ @Bob R- I would print out the above and be able to work it for your checkride. Good luck, let us know how it goes!

That's a great question. Yes, absolutely my 1964 has both Manuals. I will take a picture when I have a chance. I thought that was the deal before the actual Pilots Operating Handbook came into existence- there was an Owner's Manual and an Approved Flight Manual appropriately signed off by the factory. I definitely could be wrong. But in that case I don't know when it changed.

⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ This. It sounds like Bob R. is missing his Flight Manual. If your checkride is coming up that soon, you'll probably need someone here at Mooneyspace to scan and email a copy to you to get you by your checkride. It is supposed to be N# specific, but this idea should get you by in a pinch.

Holy shit, that guy has big balls. What exact words did you use to tell him to f**k off and ask his millionaire buddy for the $100?

I almost never disagree with Clarence, but in this case I will as it applies to the original cowlings (before the style which uses Camlocs to hold on the tops and sides). Like Rinj said, using the Lycoming adapter requires the entire cowling to come off, which is a crapload of screws and all three pieces of the cowling. Every oil change. Now with my remote oil filter, it is only the right side which is way less than half the screws and less than 1/3 the time. I'm not sure when they changed the cowling, either 1966 or 67.

I don't think I would be so quick to swap out a generator, and I don't really agree with Chris (unless you base your airplane at Teterboro). Yes, you may have to turn off some unused avionics, and you definitely want to get an LED landing light. Maybe consider LED navigation lights if you fly a lot at night at big controlled airports. But those old generators are hell-for-stout and really just need brushes every once in a while. Also stone-ass simple and the way the airplane was designed. I know of a Mooney owner with generator who just flew to Oshkosh. He was a little concerned about long taxi times waiting to park/waiting to take off and not generating any appreciable electricity. Bottom line- it was not a problem. He had been thinking about an alternator conversion but no longer is. PlanePower makes an alternator conversion for the M20A for $859, but it's not an easy conversion, particularly in regards to baffling. And after Hartzell acquired them, quality has gone down and customer complaints up. I'd keep your generator (unless you're based out of Teterboro, like I said.)

That's interesting to hear. A friend has an M20C with a Top Prop and it also has a lot more vibration to it than mine with a stock prop. Especially around 2300 rpm. I've recommended to him dynamic balancing, and hopefully that will help. But I think you've convinced me to just keep the old style blades and hub when it comes time for me to get a new prop.

Hi, Kim. This is Andy from Chapter 237. Yes, absolutely, there should be something there to seal that area.

I think we have a winner for the "Most Cryptic Thread" award.

Fastest and easiest troubleshooting should probably start with swapping batteries with a friend to see if the issues continue. Sounds like a low voltage issue.

It would actually be pretty easy to pre-fill the actuator prior to installation. (And its definitely a good idea when it comes to the hydraulic flap actuator). The problem with the brakes are the brake lines between the master cylinders and the calipers- they aren't a downhill run the entire way to the calipers. So the problem remains that if you can't flow enough brake fluid, you'll never quite get the last little bit of air out. (I bet if you could suspend a Mooney at a 45° nose up angle and then bleed the brakes, we wouldn't be having this discussion.) I don't remember if it was Ross, Rich, or Yetti, but someone mentioned flying the airplane in nose-high banked attitudes and manipulating the brake pedals to help the remaining air rise through the system. It seemed to help mine when my right brake was a little bit softer than the left.

Like Anthony, I think I'm squarely in the middle of this conversation. Paul's list of unfortunate owners can be a warning sign to potential buyers to pay a little more for a better airframe. On the other hand, an extra $5,000 is a lot for someone who is scraping to buy his first airplane. There are people out there who can afford a $25,000 old M20C now, and in the future will have an additional $35,000 to spend to repair/upgrade. They will have invested $60,000 in an airplane that is worth $50,000. To some, that is a waste of 10 grand. To others, it means they have the airplane that they always wanted now, rather than later. And if someone is willing and able to do the difficult work themselves (with supervision- like Alex- @Raptor05121) then "budget" (i.e., "cheap") ownership is the best course of action. One size don't fit all, but I sure do feel bad for new owners who have to scrap their budget Mooneys because they were beyond economic repair.

No kidding. I've never heard of anyone- until now- with Art's experiences when operated the way that he does. I feel your pain, Art, batteries ain't cheap. Are you reading voltage directly, or through something like a JPI engine monitor? There can be some losses from the main bus to the avionics bus, so your actual charging voltage could be much higher. Other than that, I'm at a loss. Please let us know if you ever find any resolution.

Try turning your headset volume down and all the other inputs up. Sound quality might be better as well.