John Pleisse Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Anybody read the "First Word" in this month's Aviation Consumer? They shed considerable light on Avidyne's new liability and indemnification tactics, literally requiring owners sign an agreement that includes one or both of the following: -That owners never sue Avydine over product defect or liability -That if the NTSB proves an owner to be at fault (probable cause) in an accident and Avidyne is party to suit, that the owner will pay for Avidyne's defense and/or assume liability. 1) Is this true? 2) Has anyone seen this elsewhere, from other manufacturers? 3) Would it ever hold up? 4) In light of this, anyone still considering IFD 540/440's when they hit the market? .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=5687193f-967c-486f-8bff-acf8e04387f2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 I have read about this somewhere. Now if this translated into a reasonably priced Avidyne unit, I might sign it. but with a good portion of the cost for the product in the certification process, I doubt it will mean cheaper prices. The last company I saw make a bonehead decision like this, it killed them. (Narco with their decision not to allow repairs other than their facility). Bold move, but stupid. Why would I buy when there are alternatives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted July 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 I am still unclear. Is this only for people who voluntarily opt into the "Aeroplan", or is it a contingencey of any purchase? And what about assumption of used gear, second party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Avalle Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 I agree with Maurader. If it means the product is reasonably priced then I would consider it. But I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Sort of makes me glad I didn't sign up for the pre-purchase program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 I'm a little foggy on what this means as well. The way I read it is that I would be responsible for their legal costs/damages if somebody decides to sue them for an accident I had that was my fault? I'm not sure why this would happen to begin with but I sure don't want to take on that sort of liability or sign my rights away. And also is this just for someone who gets in on the Aeroplan or any consumer purchasing and Avidyne product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 That is the craziest business plan I think I've ever seen! It reads like you sign away all of their liability and pledge YOUR assets to defend THEM if they are ever sued by someone that might buy your plane in the future. You become their insurance company... no thanks. And it's not like their "service plan" is moderately priced, either. If they jack up their flat-rate repair costs to the point that such a "plan" is the only alternative, then I would never ever buy their hardware even though it seems great today at first glance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 That is the craziest business plan I think I've ever seen! It reads like you sign away all of their liability and pledge YOUR assets to defend THEM if they are ever sued by someone that might buy your plane in the future. You become their insurance company... no thanks. And it's not like their "service plan" is moderately priced, either. If they jack up their flat-rate repair costs to the point that such a "plan" is the only alternative, then I would never ever buy their hardware even though it seems great today at first glance. They did jack up their flat fees to like $5000. There is not $5000 dollars worth of parts (screens included) in the entire Entergra R9 system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Dumb move on their part..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Dumb move on their part..... +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Glad I went the GTN 650 that's a show stopper for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 This is no surprise. Due to the low business volume many companies are reducing their fix costs including liability insurance and manpower. This is why the IFD-540 has taken that long. The pre release customer down payment is typical of companies needing capital for ongoing product development. But Avidyne is not the only, there are others in similar situation. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 yeah, they just signed their own death warrant with that. Not only are they not even shipping product they promised a year ago, but they now require a total release and what amounts to a blank check from you. No wonder Cirrus was the last OEM to drop them. Forget it, I was a big supporter of Avidyne releasing the iFD-540, but I am glad I never paid upfront for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monticello Flying Club Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Why should they be liable and pay defense costs if it is found to be pilot error by that owner (and why doesn't this article post Avidyne's response now a month later)? This is what has almost ruined general aviation. Some VFR pilot takes off into IMC after being told by the briefer of mountain obscuration and VFR not recommended, runs into a mountain, and then his family's lawyers sue Avidyne and everyone else who touched anything in the airplane, hoping that most of them settle even though they had nothing to do with the crash. A friend of mine had a business and refused to settle, but despite winning every lawsuit, went out of business because he couldn't afford the court costs. People say that if the company isn't at fault they should have nothing to worry about. That isn't true, they always loose in the end. Is it a good decision on Avidyne's part, maybe not, but they have been reduced to it by greedy liability/tort lawyers. Thank liability/tort lawyers for ruining general aviation, not Avidyne. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 A- Do we live in a litigious society? YES B- Is the legal system to blame for some of the outrageous costs associated with GA? YES C- Would I ever sign a document agreeing to cover the legal expenses of a business from whom I purchased a piece of very expensive equipment because of A and B? HELL NO And to answer the question...Why should they be liable and pay defense costs if it is found to be pilot error by that owner? They shouldn't; however, the defense associated with the claim comes before a determination of fault. Is there a stipulation in the contract which says if the company IS found to be at fault then they would pay their own defense fees? I bet not. To me it seems like the company is attempting to limit their liability (something I don't have a problem with) at the expense of me the little guy (something I do have a problem with) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I do think the waiver sucks as written but remember no one is forcing you to sign the waiver. The company is offering reduced costs if you do sign. They are reducing their risks by reducing their exposure and passing that savings on to the consumer. If you don't like it, don't sign. and remember the pilot is ultimately responsible for his or her aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 2 grand a year for insurance against a 5K flat repair fee sounds like a mafia racket. Pay the protection money so they dont burn down your restaurant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I do think the waiver sucks as written but remember no one is forcing you to sign the waiver. The company is offering reduced costs if you do sign. They are reducing their risks by reducing their exposure and passing that savings on to the consumer. If you don't like it, don't sign. and remember the pilot is ultimately responsible for his or her aircraft. Tony - I guess you didn't read the fine print. The Avidyne 540 is priced MORE than the Garmin 750. http://www.avidyne.com/products/ifd540/product-compare.asp Also, I have heard the repair prices for the Avidyne products are more expensive than other manufacturers. This is not saving money for consumers, this is to make sure they don't get sued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 2 grand a year for insurance against a 5K flat repair fee sounds like a mafia racket. Pay the protection money so they dont burn down your restaurant. Speak of the devil! You replied as I was typing. These are the repair prices I heard as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Tony - I guess you didn't read the fine print. The Avidyne 540 is priced MORE than the Garmin 750. http://www.avidyne.com/products/ifd540/product-compare.asp Also, I have heard the repair prices for the Avidyne products are more expensive than other manufacturers. This is not saving money for consumers, this is to make sure they don't get sued. One big selling point the sales rep kept bringing up at OSH 2010 was that they have a low priced, per hour repair job, no flat rate like those Garmin folks. An' another thing. You can get a GTN-750 for 13,500 plus install. Ain't no way in hell they are going to command that 16,500$ retail price. An 11 grand iFD-540 is only 2 grand off a GTN, and you can't even get it yet. There is no "deal" there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Well i am one of the nit wits that put a deposit down. I emailed them yesterday inquiring about how to get my deposit back if i should wish to. I said that after reading the latest article in aviation consumer that i am having second thoughts. It had been 15 months since i made my deposit and per the agreement i am entitled to a full refund after a period of one year from the date of the deposit. No word back from them today but thats not surprising since Oshkosh is going on. I am anxious to see what kind of response i get. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Well i am one of the nit wits that put a deposit down. I emailed them yesterday inquiring about how to get my deposit back if i should wish to. I said that after reading the latest article in aviation consumer that i am having second thoughts. It had been 15 months since i made my deposit and per the agreement i am entitled to a full refund after a period of one year from the date of the deposit. No word back from them today but thats not surprising since Oshkosh is going on. I am anxious to see what kind of response i get. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Get that deposit back and spend it on an Aspen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Get that deposit back and spend it on an Aspen! Brett, get that deposit back and put it in the bank! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Get that deposit back and spend it on an Aspen! Brett, get that deposit back and put it in the bank! Yeah really. They've earned interest on my money for 15 months now. I wasn't expecting an end of 2012 delivery but sure wasn't expecting it to go onto the end of 2013. Live and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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