Electroair ignition

[M016576]

Anyone install this? Pireps?

[aviatoreb]

Seems like a really good idea.  I was talking to my hangar neighbor with a comanche who is thinking of installing it.  I would seriously consider it if it were available for my engine.

[Krh3682]

I was checking their website yesterday. They're STCd for almost any Mooney J and earlier. If I have issues again with my mags, definitely going this route. Three times sent in to get serviced at the same shop in a five month span is enough.

[Jeev]

It sounds promising and has a "cool" factor to it but I'm reluctant to drop the cash until I hear some real world numbers. Since there are no PIREPS I am assuming other have the same reluctance as I do. Properly maintained Mags have a great safety / dependability record so I would need a measurable bump on performance or fuel burn to make it worth while for me.

Hope someone wants to jump off the $4000 cliff before me ;-)

[M016576]

They claim 10-15% fuel economy increase (~1+ GPH less fuel flow)... That would have the system pay for itself in about 700hrs at current fuel prices.

Like you guys, though, d like to hear some "real world" experiences...

[TTaylor]

They claim 10-15% fuel economy increase (~1+ GPH less fuel flow)... That would have the system pay for itself in about 700hrs at current fuel prices.

Like you guys, though, d like to hear some "real world" experiences...

 

See the Cafe reports using the test Mooney:

 

http://cafefoundation.org/v2/pdf_cafe_reports/ignition2.pdf

 

Only at high altitude for NA engines did they show much of a difference.

[Oscar Avalle]

How is this different from the LASAR ignition... it sounds very similar. I installed the system in my Mooney. It works nicely, the only problem is that by advancing the timing CHTs go up by 30 degrees.

[carusoam]

From 280 to 310F, not so bad...

If it were from 380 to 410F, not so good.

Best regards,

-a-

[bd32322]

Yeah I read the CAFE reports and I was not impressed. High CHTs even with the test aircraft having modified cooling and barely any fuel efficiency gains. The report mentioned that the system sorely needs knock sensors to be effective

[Oscar Avalle]

My experience with LASAR is not stellar. High cht and i did not see a real improvement. The main difference was she starts easier. Would I do it again? I don't think so. I would most likely opt to install a power flow exhaust system.

[rbridges]

that's too bad.  AOPA put it in their list of recommendations to save costs in this month's issue.  Does it replace the mag?  It seems like it could save costs since mag rebuilds seem to be a constant complaint with aircraft owners.

[bd32322]

that's too bad. AOPA put it in their list of recommendations to save costs in this month's issue. Does it replace the mag? It seems like it could save costs since mag rebuilds seem to be a constant complaint with aircraft owners.

If electroair did not result in high CHTs, I would have splurged for it, even if all it did was make starts easier. Getting rid of the 500 hour mag inspection would have been nice.

But I'd rather wait for GAMI's PRISM system

[Alan Fox]

The problem as I see it is there is no compensation for mixture , or knock ....... A modern auto uses Manifold pressure , temps , air mass , detonation , fuel burn (oxygen) and more to determine not only ignition timing , but also mixture..... Its like paying 4000 dollars to go from 40s tech , to 70s tech......  And those pics sure look a lot like 90s era general motors hardware...... Great equipment , but not worth the price of admission....

[jetdriven]

How is this different from the LASAR ignition... it sounds very similar. I installed the system in my Mooney. It works nicely, the only problem is that by advancing the timing CHTs go up by 30 degrees.

They work similar on principle but they are completely different mechanically. The LASAR is a variable timing Slick magneto set, the electroair is a triggered electronic ignition. The electroair has much more spark energy and is a simpler design.

[cujet]

Real world experience with electronic ignitions:

 

Note: I work as an A+P in a corporate flight department, I am a pilot and aircraft owner. 

 

I've installed, and/or been involved with the installation of a number of electronic ignition systems. Including Lightspeed's on a IO-360 equipped Velocity, Lightspeeds on an IO-540 powered F1-Rocket, E-Mags on a Velocity and others. Starting about 10 years ago. 

 

1) the engines always operate smoother. 

2) the peak power might be slightly less, resulting in a possible "slight" reduction in rate of climb. However, this is impossible to verify.

3) cylinder head temps in cruise are always higher

4) audible detonation does occur if mismanaged (running too much advance with high compression pistons for example)

5) Fuel consumption during taxi, low speed flight (such as traffic pattern, or sightseeing at low+lean power settings) and during descent is markedly improved. 

6) Fuel consumption during high speed flight is unchanged. (although there may be a slight loss of top speed)(impossible to verify) 

7) Overall fuel consumption is reduced on the order of 5% for the folks I've dealt with. 

8) Underpowered aircraft won't see much gain in fuel economy, as engines are often run at higher power settings, where timing advance cannot be used. 

 

The F1 rocket, for example, has 300HP, and can be thought of as a clipped wing RV-4, plenty of power. He was able to see significant gains in economy. But at uncomfortable altitudes, and modest power settings, while pushing CHT limits. He has a nifty way to adjust ign timing in flight with a simple knob. Guess where that timing eventually ends up? At modest settings that mirror a 25 degree magneto setting. (yes, his engine is tightly cowled, and CHT's are a constant concern) He claims he can get down to 12-13GPH at 200MPH at 12,000 feet, with a CHT of 420. Not exactly comfortable. 

 

The Velocity on the other hand, runs it's IO-360 angle valve engine very hard, at 12 gallons per hour in cruise. He shows zero improvement in cruise fuel economy. But, gains in other areas of flight, taxi, pattern, slow speed/lean and descent. 

 

My personal feeling: I love the electronic ign systems. For the smoother operation, quick starting, and differing modes of failure. (one mag, one elec have different modes of failure) AND, for the slightly improved fuel economy. I'd guess return on investment is not the way to look at elec ign. Just don't expect more power or significant gains in economy. One regular route we fly at 7500-9500 consumes 40-41 gallons,  mags or elec ign matters not on that trip. 

[Oscar Avalle]

How is this different from the LASAR ignition... it sounds very similar. I installed the system in my Mooney. It works nicely, the only problem is that by advancing the timing CHTs go up by 30 degrees.

They work similar on principle but they are completely different mechanically. The LASAR is a variable timing Slick magneto set, the electroair is a triggered electronic ignition. The electroair has much more spark energy and is a simpler design.

thank you for the clarification. What I also like about the LASAr ignition is the back up that you get. LASAR plus two magnetos...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[aviatoreb]

I wish Gami Prism were ready to install with STC.  That seems like the modern system.

[Alan Fox]

I wish Gami Prism were ready to install with STC.  That seems like the modern system.

So does LASAR til you install it....

[aviatoreb]

So does LASAR til you install it....

 

Touche'

[nels]

Real world experience with electronic ignitions:

 Good information, thanks.

Note: I work as an A+P in a corporate flight department, I am a pilot and aircraft owner. 

 

I've installed, and/or been involved with the installation of a number of electronic ignition systems. Including Lightspeed's on a IO-360 equipped Velocity, Lightspeeds on an IO-540 powered F1-Rocket, E-Mags on a Velocity and others. Starting about 10 years ago. 

 

1) the engines always operate smoother. 

2) the peak power might be slightly less, resulting in a possible "slight" reduction in rate of climb. However, this is impossible to verify.

3) cylinder head temps in cruise are always higher

4) audible detonation does occur if mismanaged (running too much advance with high compression pistons for example)

5) Fuel consumption during taxi, low speed flight (such as traffic pattern, or sightseeing at low+lean power settings) and during descent is markedly improved. 

6) Fuel consumption during high speed flight is unchanged. (although there may be a slight loss of top speed)(impossible to verify) 

7) Overall fuel consumption is reduced on the order of 5% for the folks I've dealt with. 

8) Underpowered aircraft won't see much gain in fuel economy, as engines are often run at higher power settings, where timing advance cannot be used. 

 

The F1 rocket, for example, has 300HP, and can be thought of as a clipped wing RV-4, plenty of power. He was able to see significant gains in economy. But at uncomfortable altitudes, and modest power settings, while pushing CHT limits. He has a nifty way to adjust ign timing in flight with a simple knob. Guess where that timing eventually ends up? At modest settings that mirror a 25 degree magneto setting. (yes, his engine is tightly cowled, and CHT's are a constant concern) He claims he can get down to 12-13GPH at 200MPH at 12,000 feet, with a CHT of 420. Not exactly comfortable. 

 

The Velocity on the other hand, runs it's IO-360 angle valve engine very hard, at 12 gallons per hour in cruise. He shows zero improvement in cruise fuel economy. But, gains in other areas of flight, taxi, pattern, slow speed/lean and descent. 

 

My personal feeling: I love the electronic ign systems. For the smoother operation, quick starting, and differing modes of failure. (one mag, one elec have different modes of failure) AND, for the slightly improved fuel economy. I'd guess return on investment is not the way to look at elec ign. Just don't expect more power or significant gains in economy. One regular route we fly at 7500-9500 consumes 40-41 gallons,  mags or elec ign matters not on that trip.