DaV8or Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Seriously, fly the plane. Don't cut it up over a pimple. Quote
Hank Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Seriously, fly the plane. Don't cut it up over a pimple. Too late, Dave--she's gone. Looks like the wing spar was cut at the right wheel well . . . . Maybe the Golfer will shop for a replacement. Quote
BigTex Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Really really sad. They're not making these planes anymore and we as Mooney owners are stewards for these planes and need to do whatever's necessary to keep them flying. If for whatever reason (in this case it sounds like for convenience) you don't want to deal with the plane, sale it! The ONLY planes that should be parted out are ones that was totaled from an accident or other reason can not be repaired or put back into flying condition. If we parted out our WWII planes due to corrosion, we'd only be watching replicas fly. Really really sad... 1 Quote
Alan Fox Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Really really sad. They're not making these planes anymore and we as Mooney owners are stewards for these planes and need to do whatever's necessary to keep them flying. If for whatever reason (in this case it sounds like for convenience) you don't want to deal with the plane, sale it! The ONLY planes that should be parted out are ones that was totaled from an accident or other reason can not be repaired or put back into flying condition. If we parted out our WWII planes due to corrosion, we'd only be watching replicas fly. Really really sad... The owner didnt want to put a wing on it , So he sold it , I bought it , It is worth more in parts , If everyone wanted to save it , How come I was the only one to step up to the plate and buy it .........Forget about the fact that most of you are buying parts of this plane , and forget about the fact that 80% of this plane will fly again...... I took one out of a hanger after 20 years , got it in nice flying condition , and no one will give me more than 30 K for an E model.... Why would I make the same mistake twice????? Quote
Sabremech Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 All things considered, this is the best thing for the Mooney community. Serviceable parts are being made available that are nearly impossible to get right now. Our WWII airplanes are not suffering the corrosion you think BigTex. More of them are lost to poor decisions by the pilots and not corrosion. I have some real first hand experience lately with a P51 that had never been completely restored and am working on a fantastically clean FG-1D Corsair! David Quote
BigTex Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Don't get me wrong, I understand that the overall Mooney fleet benefits from folks parting their planes out. That being said, there's just something that doesn't set well with me taking a flying aircraft and part it out... Guess it's just me. Quote
Alan Fox Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 Don't get me wrong, I understand that the overall Mooney fleet benefits from folks parting their planes out. That being said, there's just something that doesn't set well with me taking a flying aircraft and part it out... Guess it's just me. How do you think I felt holding the sawzall ?????? It wasnt pleasant...... Quote
KSMooniac Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 Yeah, it sucks, but it is what it is. Alan reported above that the FAA refused a ferry permit, so that pretty much sealed the fate. If it helps keep 3 or 4 other planes flying, then that is better than many of the other derelict planes that are rotting away across the country. Quote
sreid Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 Yeah, it sucks, but it is what it is. Alan reported above that the FAA refused a ferry permit, so that pretty much sealed the fate. I just can't believe that there wasn't a way to fly that airplane. Who from the feds looked at it? There has to be more to it than bustin' out the hackers saw when you get the first "no". Posting that picture on a Mooney website is like posting a picture of a steak dinner on PETAspace, what were you thinking? Quote
Alan Fox Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 Grand Rapids FSDO came out and inspected it , Denying the permit just moved up the timeline and cost me another 1500.00 in the grand scheme of things....If there is corrosion on an Aluminum spar cap and skin , what does it look like where the steel splices are in the wings , there were 337s for welded members in the cage.... I wasnt putting someone in this airplane , I too have to sleep at night ..... The reality is that these things dont last forever , 50 years is a fantastic run for an airplane , and there is a time when you have to pack it in.........It was worth substantially less than the sum of its parts........... P.E.T.A. People Eating Tasty Animals.....Where do I sign up????? Quote
DaV8or Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 Grand Rapids FSDO came out and inspected it , Denying the permit just moved up the timeline and cost me another 1500.00 in the grand scheme of things....If there is corrosion on an Aluminum spar cap and skin , what does it look like where the steel splices are in the wings , there were 337s for welded members in the cage.... I wasnt putting someone in this airplane , I too have to sleep at night ..... The reality is that these things dont last forever , 50 years is a fantastic run for an airplane , and there is a time when you have to pack it in.........It was worth substantially less than the sum of its parts........... P.E.T.A. People Eating Tasty Animals.....Where do I sign up????? The FAA has conditioned us to think that every little crack and pimple of rust is going to lead to fiery wreckage. I have to wonder, has there ever been a wing spar failure in flight due to corrosion, or has there ever been an injury caused by a cracked cage? Our little planes are a bit more robust then that I believe. I have heard stories of airplanes operated day in and out in the African bush with corrosion holes rotted through so you could see right through. Of course the rules are the rules and I'm not suggesting that anybody should Spackle over the rust and cracks and then try to pass the plane off on someone else, I just wish there could be a little perspective on the subject. I think if I were in the position that the OP is in and I cared about the plane, I would surface treat the corrosion and seal it, put the cover back on and not look at it again until the next annual. I would repeat this until I decided it was time for me to get rid of the plane, then maybe I'd take the Sawsall to it. While I would personally fly in a plane with this sort of affliction, I would not try to pass it off on someone else. I also see the economics of trying to salvage a plane in these times. Our planes are losing more value everyday. The market is in the process of right sizing. There are fewer and fewer pilots, so there is less and less demand for airplanes. Eventually, due to scraping, natural disasters and crashes, the supply will meet demand and prices will stabilize and with few to no new airplanes coming on line, the prices should trend upwards. There will be a day when owners will easily pay to have a wing removed, rebuilt and reinstalled. They will look back on our time wish they could buy such cheap and clean airframes as we are cutting up now. Alas, such is the march of time. Quote
N601RX Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 One small spot like this may not look like much, but on a stressed part such as a spar that flexes slightly it will eventually develop a crack in the bottom of corrosion pit. Normally the stress would be spread out evenly along the spar, but when you have a small damaged area like the stress concentrates at bottom of the pit and will eventually lead to a crack. Given that it might be several hundred hrs or more later. Quote
Alan Fox Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 The FAA has conditioned us to think that every little crack and pimple of rust is going to lead to fiery wreckage. I have to wonder, has there ever been a wing spar failure in flight due to corrosion, or has there ever been an injury caused by a cracked cage? Our little planes are a bit more robust then that I believe. I have heard stories of airplanes operated day in and out in the African bush with corrosion holes rotted through so you could see right through. Of course the rules are the rules and I'm not suggesting that anybody should Spackle over the rust and cracks and then try to pass the plane off on someone else, I just wish there could be a little perspective on the subject. I think if I were in the position that the OP is in and I cared about the plane, I would surface treat the corrosion and seal it, put the cover back on and not look at it again until the next annual. I would repeat this until I decided it was time for me to get rid of the plane, then maybe I'd take the Sawsall to it. While I would personally fly in a plane with this sort of affliction, I would not try to pass it off on someone else. I also see the economics of trying to salvage a plane in these times. Our planes are losing more value everyday. The market is in the process of right sizing. There are fewer and fewer pilots, so there is less and less demand for airplanes. Eventually, due to scraping, natural disasters and crashes, the supply will meet demand and prices will stabilize and with few to no new airplanes coming on line, the prices should trend upwards. There will be a day when owners will easily pay to have a wing removed, rebuilt and reinstalled. They will look back on our time wish they could buy such cheap and clean airframes as we are cutting up now. Alas, such is the march of time. Keep in mind I cut the tail off in about 90 seconds , They are not as strong as you think they are...... You would be amazed....... Quote
N601RX Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 If you have time would you mind peeling the skin back and posting a pic of how the bottom of the spar cap looked? Quote
Alan Fox Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 If you have time would you mind peeling the skin back and posting a pic of how the bottom of the spar cap looked? No can do , pulled the flaps , ailerons , inspection covers , autopilot servo , and sold the wings for .50 a lb.... Quote
DaV8or Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 Keep in mind I cut the tail off in about 90 seconds , They are not as strong as you think they are...... You would be amazed....... No amazement here. The tail cone is monocoque construction and so is a stressed skin of aluminum sheet metal. I'm talking about wing spars and cages. Your story reminds me of the ads Milwaukee used to run on TV in the '70s when the Sawsall first came out. They showed a guy cutting a car in half with the saw and I think they claimed 3 minutes. Much the same as your tail, they chose the weakest section of the car to do it. In addition it was a Japanese import built with unibody construction. Would have taken much longer with a Chrysler Imperial and forget about a F-150, In any case, it sold a lot of saws. Quote
KSMooniac Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 I hope you pulled all of the landing gear components too! They're worth a lot of money. Quote
Alan Fox Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 I hope you pulled all of the landing gear components too! They're worth a lot of money. Come on now..... You think I drove a uhaul 14 hours to throw away profits...... The wings weighed 91 lbs each when I was done with them.... Quote
KSMooniac Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 Very well then! Just checking... I can't stand to drive any trips since getting the Mooney 6 years ago. 14 hours in a Uhaul must've been miserable! Quote
CajunMooneyguy Posted March 25, 2013 Report Posted March 25, 2013 Has anyone heard of Mooney wings breaking in flight? Is there any "typical" place that corrosion will show up first? Quote
Hank Posted March 25, 2013 Report Posted March 25, 2013 Has anyone heard of Mooney wings breaking in flight? I have never heard of this happening. Ever. Quote
N601RX Posted March 25, 2013 Report Posted March 25, 2013 I've only heard of a wood wing that broke. It was rotted. Quote
KSMooniac Posted March 25, 2013 Report Posted March 25, 2013 I believe there was at least one that broke apart in flight when it was flown *into* a thunderstorm. Quote
Marauder Posted March 25, 2013 Report Posted March 25, 2013 I remember speaking to Bill Wheat about this at one of the MAPA Homecomings. He said that the wing loading is done as part of certification with a test jig to determine the wing loading in Gs before the wing snaps. He said that the jig broke before the wing did. Quote
carusoam Posted March 25, 2013 Report Posted March 25, 2013 Don't fly into icing conditions or thunderstorms with wooden tail Mooneys... Pay the extra that is required to get the all metal / higher HP version of a Mooney. It's usually better to do this type of research prior to purchasing, no? Best regards, -a- Quote
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