Yes another oil debate (with poll)

[201er]

Please vote what type of oil you primarily use and whether you use it with Camguard. If you use a different additive just let us know in your post. I'm also curious why a lot of pilots are choosing to use Camguard so vote on that and discuss. While we're at it, what oil is best for flying LOP?

[MARZ]

Change the poll to allow for i don't currently use Camguard and I Plan to use Camguard.

[jetdriven]

I prefer Kerr-McGee Blue Velvet.

[fantom]

[stevesm20b]

I use Aeroshell 15w-50. I don't use Camguard.

[Jeff_S]

I, too, cannot answer your poll because you did not include a response in the second question that includes "don't use". However, I use Phillips 20W50 with AvBlend. I primarily use AvBlend because Jerry Manthey swore by it in the Mooney Maintenance seminar I attended last year. I fly often enough that I'm not worried about the rust prevention benefits of CamGuard. And I don't have a ton of historical data since I just purchased my 201 in January or 2010, but since I started using AvBlend my Blackstone oil reports have just kept getting better and better.

[jetdriven]

Aviation Consumer finds no benefit to Avblend. Neither can anyone else. Its just snake oil. FWIW our oil reports were perfect until an "elevated iron, monitor" report came from Blackstone. We had 1/4 teaspoon of metal in the filter from that sample and the engine was already off the airplane.

[scottfromiowa]

550 hours 50LOP running Camguard and X/C. I am a believer.

[fantom]

I do an oil analysis once a year.......just because, and while I have high respect for Jerry Manthey I'm fairly certain that AvBlend is even a bigger waste of $ than my annual oil analysis.

[jetdriven]

Im with you Gary. We are going to do it less frequently. Mainly to keep Lycoming happy with the warranty. This new engine cost more than my last trailer house....including carport, window A/C units, and the '78 Firebird on blocks in front.

[johnggreen]

I use 15w-50. I don't use Camguard. It won't take my vote because I don't say why I use Camguard. ???????

Jgreen

[Sabremech]

Exxon Elite 20W-50 and no Camguard. I'm a skeptic to marketing claims like "Chevron with Techron"! Not enough actual proof that additives will guarantee a longer TBO.

[Dale]

I use Phillips XC with camguard. I have read the reports and it appears to have a beneficial effect in reducing rust in the engine. I don't fly as often as I would like, so for me the addition of camguard is beneficial. My oil analysis reports have all been good. So unless something better comes along, I intend to stick with Phillips XC and camguard.

[bd32322]

Wow since you guys are mentioning avblend, i went and looked it up. $20 for a 12 oz can which is supposed to go in duing one oil change ! Wow !! The FAQ reads like a late night infomercial on home shopping network, micro-molecules and all. Although that will be doing HSN a disservice.

Anyway i dont use camguard and fly regularly - poll would not accept my response. I have been using all sorts of oil, aeroshell 100w, aeroshelll 15w-50, phillips xc 20w50, exon elite 20w50. I think i'll stick with the exxon elite - i think some publication, prolly avweb found the least amount of rusting with this oil.

[Lood]

The only reason I don't use Camguard is because it is not readily available here in SA. Nor is oil from Phillips. Castrol is rather widely available and Shell of course is to be found at just about every airfield. So, I have used Shell since I started flying.

I only found out two weeks ago that my AME uses Avblend, together with W100 at every oil change and they have many good words for it. I won't know.

According to the poll, as well as the oil articles sent to me by Byron, the most popular route is indeed XC20W50 with Camguard, W100 with Camguard or Exxon Elite. Seeing that Camguard is hard to come by and at a price here in SA, I'm leaning towards Exxon. Now, I just have to find out whether it is available here and at which price.

Before my engine overhaul, I used W100 Plus. FWIW.

[N9453V]

My engine (O-360-A1D) was originally run on straight W100 before I bought it, then an MSC advised me to switch to W100 Plus so I did. Now that I've looked into it further, I'm switching to W100 with Camguard based on my mechanic's recommendation (he's toured Camguard's facility and was impressed) and Mike Busch's.

Mike Busch has a very good webinar (thanks to Byron for sending me the link): http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1149666747001

To summarize, he uses W100 with CamGuard and recommends W100 if operating in a warm climate and Phillips 20W50 if operating a colder climate (for part of the year). He specifically recommends against 15W50 due to the high percentage of synthetic oil.

-Andrew

[Jeff_S]

  On 9/27/2012 at 11:42 PM, jetdriven said:

Aviation Consumer finds no benefit to Avblend. Neither can anyone else. Its just snake oil. FWIW our oil reports were perfect until an "elevated iron, monitor" report came from Blackstone. We had 1/4 teaspoon of metal in the filter from that sample and the engine was already off the airplane.

  On 9/28/2012 at 12:32 AM, fantom said:

I do an oil analysis once a year.......just because, and while I have high respect for Jerry Manthey I'm fairly certain that AvBlend is even a bigger waste of $ than my annual oil analysis.

Well, this at least gave me the chance to try the new "multi-quote" feature! I too have read the Aviation Consumer report, and I think you are misrepresenting it to say they find no benefit to AvBlend. Here is the exact quote from the subtitle of the article:

We can’t guarantee CamGuard or AvBlend will save you money over the long haul. But both seem to have real merit, albeit with different strengths.

They go on to cite the evidence from many sources that AvBlend has shown a reduction in wear and deposits through consistent use. The article is online for any subscribers who wish to read what was actually written, as opposed to other people's opinions about what was written.

[fantom]

  On 9/28/2012 at 11:29 AM, Jeff_S said:

They go on to cite the evidence from many sources that AvBlend has shown a reduction in wear and deposits through consistent use. The article is online for any subscribers who wish to read what was actually written, as opposed to other people's opinions about what was written.

What you're overlooking Jeff, is that we've read those articles also, that they cite opinions not 'evidence', and not gospel...of which there is precious little in aviation. What we're doing is drawing conclusions, based on all sources, our experience, lots of input, and offering it up.

Take it or leave it, but it's silly to argue about it. YMMV

[danb35]

What is fact (just look at the MSDS for AvBlend) is that AvBlend is a mixture of mineral oil, dye, and perfume. That's it. It contains no antiwear additives, no anticorrosion additives, no detergent additives, no proprietary ingredients, nothing. I suspect it's pretty much the same as Marvel Mystery Oil (which a lot of people also swear by), but I could be wrong on that...

bd32322, Camguard is $25 for a 16 oz. bottle, and that's about the amount for one oil change (they recommend a 5% concentration, so it depends on how much oil you add at a change). I use 7 quarts at an oil change, and usually add two quarts before the next change, and that collectively uses almost exactly a pint of Camguard. If you compare the cost of Phillips XC 20W-50 + Camguard to Exxon Elite w/o Camguard, it's about a wash.

[aaronk25]

I believe everything Mike Busch says so I run shell 100w with cam guard and operate my airplane exactly they way he preaches. I will tell you that 100w takes longer to drain down to the case after operating. about 4 days to get it all down. the 15w-50 semi-syn aeroshell is off in about 1-2 days judging by oil level on dipstick.

Also a big beliver in flying the plane every 4 days for at least 15-20min. A little off topic but as long as were on itmes that save wear and tear, I put a new Reiff Pre heat system on (live in MN) and the Turbo XP model has 100watts per cylinder and 2 100w oil sump heaters with a 165 degree thermostat and last night was 35 degrees and when I turned on the master the oil temp on my JPI 830 indicated 162 and the cylinders were 140. Main decision to go with the Reiff was because over the competition it puts twice as much heat on the oil, and has a thermostat, and when gets -20C I want all the heat I can get....

[animalmover]

Aeroshell 100W, oil change 25-30 hours and a sample to Blackstone twice a year. I average 75 hours a year.

[Seth]

I too now use Phillilps XC 20w50 and plan to use camguard.

At my next change since I hit 100 hours since overhaul I was going to start using it. However, now that I have they cylinder issue (separate thread) I'll not use Camguard until they are broken in and I'm sure the Camguard won't cause blow-by.

So, I plan to use camguard in the future with my XC 20w50 but at this time do not.

In my previous F model, I used Aeroshell 15w50 and had not big issues in 500 hours. However after conducting a lot of reserach I decided to make th switch when stepping up to my current Mooney Missile.

Take care,

-Seth

[Jeff_S]

  On 9/28/2012 at 11:40 AM, fantom said:

What you're overlooking Jeff, is that we've read those articles also, that they cite opinions not 'evidence', and not gospel...of which there is precious little in aviation. What we're doing is drawing conclusions, based on all sources, our experience, lots of input, and offering it up.

Take it or leave it, but it's silly to argue about it. YMMV

Gary, I supposed I was reacting more to Jetdriven's post than yours. His post clearly says that the Aviation Consumer article says there is no benefit to AvBlend, where in reality they provide quite a bit of evidence and their final conclusion is quite different than what Jetdriven claims. I think if you're going to quote a source, you ought to at least quote it correctly.

[Awful_Charlie]

I'm using Total oils, as they are easily available in bulk here. As I had a stock of AD80 and 100 (which are running down now) I'm using those for the summer, and 15W50 for the winter, and since earlier this year, are all getting the camguard treatment. I'm an infrequent flyer, normally just weekends, so if camguard does what it says for internal corrosion, then it's worth if considering the price of a Bravo engine overhaul

[OldGlassMan]

  On 9/28/2012 at 12:30 AM, scottfromiowa said:

550 hours 50 LOP running Camguard and X/C. I am a believer.

Me too. Oil analysis has been good since I bought the plane. She was a bit of a hangar queen for two years becasue the seller had lost his medical. He had been using Camguard, and his mechanic had the periodic engine heatup flights and oil checks in the documentaion package. It was a major factor in the decision to take the airplane. Everything I have seen says that if you are using Camguard, then X/C is as good as anything else out there.