Lasar Aviation Mooney Assurance Program - Really?

[Pinecone]

I am not a financial guy.  But as a normal person, I would probably buy some shares in a program where I had a position.  Maybe some day it would generate a return, but even if it didn't, I would own part of the process.

At Mooney MAX, they mentioned that they are creating a LASAR Aviation that will "own" LASAR and Mooney.   Maybe sell shares in that entity

 

[tim417]

33 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

I am not a financial guy.  But as a normal person, I would probably buy some shares in a program where I had a position.  Maybe some day it would generate a return, but even if it didn't, I would own part of the process.

At Mooney MAX, they mentioned that they are creating a LASAR Aviation that will "own" LASAR and Mooney.   Maybe sell shares in that entity

 

If a lot of key context was provided at the event, it hasn’t made its way into the website or public documentation; that lack of transparency is exactly what’s makes me uneasy.

Before anyone talks about “buying in” or taking a position, LASAR needs to clearly define what that even means. Are these actual equity shares with governance rights? Are they prepaid memberships? Is there a legal entity to own equity in? Right now, it’s not clear, and asking for money without that clarity is risky, and from where I sit, sounds disingenuous. So far, the model presented is still ask for money first, provide value proposition second. That doesn't work for most people.

[Brandt]

On 10/17/2025 at 11:09 AM, GeeBee said:

Without a debt or equity position, I don't see the value here. I'm not prepared to give money to Lasar to bail out the old Mooney owners who failed, newsletters and parts priority not withstanding. Better to let the thing liquidate in Chapter 7 and Lasar form a new company to buy the liquidation. It could be purchased cheaper than bailing out Jonny Pollack, his minions and the Chinese. The reality is, even if all the long body owners bought in, I don't see even 1 million being raised and to give it to the previous owners? No. They should all lose their equity, be removed entirely and a new owner use this capital to start anew. Give me that scenario and I will invest. I will say this right now. Do this plan and I will stroke a check for 10K tomorrow for shares. I will not pay a cent to buy out the old shareholders. This does not have to be complicated.

GeeBee my comments are not aimed at you, but rather some of the overall sentiments expressed.  You’re entitled to your opinion.  Here’s mine.

The value of investing is that your airplane does not become an expensive paperweight.  The negativity of some responses to this post smacks of the schoolyard yammering of today’s social media driven pseudo-experts.  It’s one thing to ask thoughtful questions.  It’s entirely another to attack based on innuendo.   LASAR has been in business for a long time and has a solid history.  This is not a fly by night private equity proposition.

The funding request doesn’t bail anyone out and people have zero information to support that accusation.  It capitalizes investment in raw materials, labor and production.  And I know firsthand that  Jonny Pollack has worked his tail off to find investment and has never taken a dime from the company.  Not a dime. Moreover he’s put his own money in to keep the company afloat.  None of you can say the same.  Not one. But the negativity of today’s internet driven commentary is quick to demonize with zero actual information. 

All of the management and finance experts commenting on this post should step up and put their money where their mouth is and buy the company.  Then dazzle us with your business acumen. But until you’re willing to write a check to back up your ideas, you’re just noise.

If Mooney goes bankrupt, it’s as likely as not that some snot nose private equity venture capitalist buys it at a fire sale price out of bankruptcy and squeezes the life out of 7,000 captive airplane owners by doubling or tripling the price of parts.  At that point $250 month will seem like a rounding error at annual time.

I will happily write a check to give LASAR a fighting chance.

 

 

[Brandt]

1 hour ago, tim417 said:

 

If a lot of key context was provided at the event, it hasn’t made its way into the website or public documentation; that lack of transparency is exactly what’s makes me uneasy.

Before anyone talks about “buying in” or taking a position, LASAR needs to clearly define what that even means. Are these actual equity shares with governance rights? Are they prepaid memberships? Is there a legal entity to own equity in? Right now, it’s not clear, and asking for money without that clarity is risky, and from where I sit, sounds disingenuous. So far, the model presented is still ask for money first, provide value proposition second. That doesn't work for most people.

I’m sure they will give you an equity position for a $250K or better investment. For $250 a month, maybe not so much…. 

[GeeBee]

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

GeeBee my comments are not aimed at you, but rather some of the overall sentiments expressed.  You’re entitled to your opinion.  Here’s mine.

The value of investing is that your airplane does not become an expensive paperweight.  The negativity of some responses to this post smacks of the schoolyard yammering of today’s social media driven pseudo-experts.  It’s one thing to ask thoughtful questions.  It’s entirely another to attack based on innuendo.   LASAR has been in business for a long time and has a solid history.  This is not a fly by night private equity proposition.

The funding request doesn’t bail anyone out and people have zero information to support that accusation.  It capitalizes investment in raw materials, labor and production.  And I know firsthand that  Jonny Pollack has worked his tail off to find investment and has never taken a dime from the company.  Not a dime. Moreover he’s put his own money in to keep the company afloat.  None of you can say the same.  Not one. But the negativity of today’s internet driven commentary is quick to demonize with zero actual information. 

All of the management and finance experts commenting on this post should step up and put their money where their mouth is and buy the company.  Then dazzle us with your business acumen. But until you’re willing to write a check to back up your ideas, you’re just noise.

If Mooney goes bankrupt, it’s as likely as not that some snot nose private equity venture capitalist buys it at a fire sale price out of bankruptcy and squeezes the life out of 7,000 captive airplane owners by doubling or tripling the price of parts.  At that point $250 month will seem like a rounding error at annual time.

I will happily write a check to give LASAR a fighting chance.

 

 

I appreciate your position but with regards to the current ownership, altruistic as they may be it will not produce results when you are in over your head. I learned that when I asked Jonny Pollack about PMA competition and he had no idea what he was talking about. When I tried to expand upon the issue he blew me off. He lost me right there as being in the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim. Altruism is a bad reason to be in an equity position and an even worse reason to throw more money. Capitalism is ruthless, and Jonny is not a babe in the woods in that regard. The loss of equity is what bankruptcy requires and make no mistake, Mooney is bankrupt. The company has no value as a going concern and demands to be sold for as such.

[Echo]

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

GeeBee my comments are not aimed at you, but rather some of the overall sentiments expressed.  You’re entitled to your opinion.  Here’s mine.

The value of investing is that your airplane does not become an expensive paperweight.  The negativity of some responses to this post smacks of the schoolyard yammering of today’s social media driven pseudo-experts.  It’s one thing to ask thoughtful questions.  It’s entirely another to attack based on innuendo.   LASAR has been in business for a long time and has a solid history.  This is not a fly by night private equity proposition.

The funding request doesn’t bail anyone out and people have zero information to support that accusation.  It capitalizes investment in raw materials, labor and production.  And I know firsthand that  Jonny Pollack has worked his tail off to find investment and has never taken a dime from the company.  Not a dime. Moreover he’s put his own money in to keep the company afloat.  None of you can say the same.  Not one. But the negativity of today’s internet driven commentary is quick to demonize with zero actual information. 

All of the management and finance experts commenting on this post should step up and put their money where their mouth is and buy the company.  Then dazzle us with your business acumen. But until you’re willing to write a check to back up your ideas, you’re just noise.

If Mooney goes bankrupt, it’s as likely as not that some snot nose private equity venture capitalist buys it at a fire sale price out of bankruptcy and squeezes the life out of 7,000 captive airplane owners by doubling or tripling the price of parts.  At that point $250 month will seem like a rounding error at annual time.

I will happily write a check to give LASAR a fighting chance.

 

 

Lasar, under CURRENT ownership and in new location are a relatively NEW entity.  The history is NOT theirs.  Only the name and the parts they bought.  No one is stopping you from writing that check.  I am glad you are planning to do so.  I have ZERO interest in throwing money at a start up that is cash poor and having apparent difficulty in regaining approved status to build and sell parts.

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

You’re entitled to your opinion.  Here’s mine.

HAH!  Well, then here is mine!

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

The value of investing is that your airplane does not become an expensive paperweight.

A second "HAH"!  Whether Mooney survives, or not, will not make my airplane a paperweight.  I've managed maintenance and parts replacement without needing Mooney for eight years.  Would I like access to Mooney parts?  Well, yes I would.  From what I can tell they haven't really been able to do so very well for some time.  Their disappearance is not going to materially affect my aircraft.  I'll go OPP if I have to.  Just like many other makes without factory support.  By and large we are flying antiques.  To think that Mooney going out of biz is going to render all our aircraft paperweights smacks of "schoolyard yammering" of the "sky is falling" variety

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

LASAR has been in business for a long time and has a solid history.

No, the current LASAR has not been in business for a long time and most certainly does not have a 'solid history' to stand upon.  This is not the well-established and Mooney community trusted business established and successfully run for decades of Paul and Sheri Lowen!

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

This is not a fly by night private equity proposition.

Really? Asking for cash upfront from owners, without any clear idea of where your 'investment' money is going, or what you get for it sounds like a pretty good proposition from a 'fly by night' opertation!

 

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

The funding request doesn’t bail anyone out and people have zero information to support that accusation.  It capitalizes investment in raw materials, labor and production.  And I know firsthand that  Jonny Pollack has worked his tail off to find investment and has never taken a dime from the company.  Not a dime. Moreover he’s put his own money in to keep the company afloat.  None of you can say the same.  Not one. But the negativity of today’s internet driven commentary is quick to demonize with zero actual information. 

Oddly, I thought the very strong implication from LASAR was that this "owner money" was going to help 'bail out' Mooney!  How it was going to do that is less than transparent to me.  While I do not doubt Jonny has 'worked his tail off' my reaction is, coldly, "so what?" It's business, not charity.  If he want to donate his own money, he's free to do so.  Doesn't mean the rest of us of are 'demonizing' anyone or any thing; we just are careful with whom we invest OUR money.  As far as 'zero actual information' I see no evidence that you have any more of 'actual information' than the rest of us!

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

All of the management and finance experts commenting on this post should step up and put their money where their mouth is and buy the company.  Then dazzle us with your business acumen. But until you’re willing to write a check to back up your ideas, you’re just noise.

WOW!  Maybe rather than vilify those of us that are CAREFUL where we invest out money you might consider that some individuals here are finance experts and have good reasons NOT to invest based on the rather 'sketchy' prospectus information available.

It's the internet and the idea that those of us who disagree with you should just shut up because our non-monetized opinions are 'just noise' is pretty childish, IMHO.

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

If Mooney goes bankrupt, it’s as likely as not that some snot nose private equity venture capitalist buys it at a fire sale price out of bankruptcy and squeezes the life out of 7,000 captive airplane owners by doubling or tripling the price of parts.

On that point I agree with you.  As with many other companies at the end of their life-span that may well be the outcome.  It commonly occurs after altruism and subsequent continued bad investment fails to achieve a more desirable outcome.  Again, though, it will NOT turn our aircraft into paperweights.

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

I will happily write a check to give LASAR a fighting chance.

You are free to soon part with your money in any way you see fit

[IvanP]

2 hours ago, Brandt said:

$250 month will seem like a rounding error at annual time.

I will happily write a check to give LASAR a fighting chance.

 

 

Please do write that check soon and make it a BIG ONE! Leading by example is a great way to show commitment and to get others to follow. 

Unfortunately, for many, if not most, of us on the forum, $5,000 a year does not represent a mere rounding error at annual so it seems understandable that there is a desire for some clarly articulated benefit of the proposed investment. Unless we should consider the money to be a charitable donation. 

Come to think of it, maybe they could convert to a non-profit and solicit charitable contributions for the prupose of maintaining the Mooney fleet viable well into the future  Not sure if that would qualify as exempt purpose, though. That way the contributors would at least get a tax write-off for the contributed money.  

[Brandt]

10 minutes ago, IvanP said:

Please do write that check soon and make it a BIG ONE! Leading by example is a great way to show commitment and to get others to follow. 

Unfortunately, for many, if not most, of us on the forum, $5,000 a year does not represent a mere rounding error at annual so it seems understandable that there is a desire for some clarly articulated benefit of the proposed investment. Unless we should consider the money to be a charitable donation. 

Come to think of it, maybe they could convert to a non-profit and solicit charitable contributions for the prupose of maintaining the Mooney fleet viable well into the future  Not sure if that would qualify as exempt purpose, though. That way the contributors would at least get a tax write-off for the contributed money.  

I invested today. I believe in putting my money where my mouth is. 

[GeeBee]

13 minutes ago, Brandt said:

I invested today. I believe in putting my money where my mouth is. 

Are you receiving equity shares?

[201Steve]

I have not read all 5 pages of this thread, but I did look at the web page. This is the silliest thing I have seen. Give a bankrupt/startup joint venture a monthly fee to get a measly 10% discount on parts they may or may not be able to functionally produce. I can’t believe they actually all got together and decided this was the move. Pretty wild. I’ll put $200 a month on a side bet that says there’s going to be some angry participants of this membership. 
 

I hope lm wrong and they have a genius idea it’s real hard to envision. 

[toto]

Speaking from the sidelines here, I’ve been paying some attention over the past few years to the AML Global Eclipse acquisition and the serious improvement in owner confidence since that acquisition.

The Eclipse group decided to focus on refurbishment as well as parts manufacture, and as I understand it, they are actually delivering a handful of new aircraft today - but parts is still their main business. 

AOPA had a nice piece on the Eclipse evolution a couple of years ago, and it’s a nice comparison story for the Mooney discussion. 

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/september/pilot/promises-kept

[Brandt]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

HAH!  Well, then here is mine!

A second "HAH"!  Whether Mooney survives, or not, will not make my airplane a paperweight.  I've managed maintenance and parts replacement without needing Mooney for eight years.  Would I like access to Mooney parts?  Well, yes I would.  From what I can tell they haven't really been able to do so very well for some time.  Their disappearance is not going to materially affect my aircraft.  I'll go OPP if I have to.  Just like many other makes without factory support.  By and large we are flying antiques.  To think that Mooney going out of biz is going to render all our aircraft paperweights smacks of "schoolyard yammering" of the "sky is falling" variety

No, the current LASAR has not been in business for a long time and most certainly does not have a 'solid history' to stand upon.  This is not the well-established and Mooney community trusted business established and successfully run for decades of Paul and Sheri Lowen!

Really? Asking for cash upfront from owners, without any clear idea of where your 'investment' money is going, or what you get for it sounds like a pretty good proposition from a 'fly by night' opertation!

 

Oddly, I thought the very strong implication from LASAR was that this "owner money" was going to help 'bail out' Mooney!  How it was going to do that is less than transparent to me.  While I do not doubt Jonny has 'worked his tail off' my reaction is, coldly, "so what?" It's business, not charity.  If he want to donate his own money, he's free to do so.  Doesn't mean the rest of us of are 'demonizing' anyone or any thing; we just are careful with whom we invest OUR money.  As far as 'zero actual information' I see no evidence that you have any more of 'actual information' than the rest of us!

WOW!  Maybe rather than vilify those of us that are CAREFUL where we invest out money you might consider that some individuals here are finance experts and have good reasons NOT to invest based on the rather 'sketchy' prospectus information available.

It's the internet and the idea that those of us who disagree with you should just shut up because our non-monetized opinions are 'just noise' is pretty childish, IMHO.

On that point I agree with you.  As with many other companies at the end of their life-span that may well be the outcome.  It commonly occurs after altruism and subsequent continued bad investment fails to achieve a more desirable outcome.  Again, though, it will NOT turn our aircraft into paperweights.

You are free to soon part with your money in any way you see fit

 

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Are you receiving equity shares?

No.  Nor did I ask for any.  I wonder how many people on Mooneyspace have written similar checks to golf or country clubs, private schools or other organizations to purchase access and outcomes without demanding an equity stake.  And for the money they are asking for, equity is a ridiculous request.  I’m prepaying a parts discount that could be saved back in one actuator purchase and I am helping ensure that the Mooney ownership doesn’t get swept up by a private equity entity that will put the screws to every single Mooney owner.

Airplane ownership is either a business tool or an expensive hobby.  But it is also an investment.  I’v seen planes AOG for many months waiting on parts, rendering them useless.  And the value of the investment will crater if the planes can’t fly. The idea that modern Mooneys are going to take to the sky on a wave of owner produced parts if Mooney fails is ridiculous.  

[tim417]

I don’t think anyone here is against helping LASAR or Mooney. The issue isn’t whether the cause is noble or worthy. It’s that the funding model is being promoted without clear terms, structure, or accountability.

 

Comparing this to writing a check to a golf club or school misses the point. Those organizations are transparent about what members get in return. Here, we’re being asked to prepay for undefined discounts (10%-25% off what exactly) and “priority access” with no published details of what will be available when. I may end up eating my words if LASAR provides this (and I hope that happens.) 

 

[MikeOH]

16 minutes ago, Brandt said:

But it is also an investment.

An airplane???

Here on Earth???

[Brandt]

20 minutes ago, tim417 said:

I don’t think anyone here is against helping LASAR or Mooney. The issue isn’t whether the cause is noble or worthy. It’s that the funding model is being promoted without clear terms, structure, or accountability.

 

Comparing this to writing a check to a golf club or school misses the point. Those organizations are transparent about what members get in return. Here, we’re being asked to prepay for undefined discounts (10%-25% off what exactly) and “priority access” with no published details of what will be available when. I may end up eating my words if LASAR provides this (and I hope that happens.) 

 

Fair enough.  And I think the feedback will help them better communicate and clarify. This is uncharted territory for them, and I believe they want to be partners with the Mooney community.  Some people will never be satisfied, but I think many of us recognize both the business challenge and the need for it to succeed both for them and for us.

[IvanP]

4 hours ago, Brandt said:

I invested today. I believe in putting my money where my mouth is. 

Good for you. I am still trying to figure out the value proposition here. 

[hazek]

8 hours ago, Brandt said:

quick to demonize with zero actual information. 

This is factually incorrect. We know for a fact:

• the factory is operational
• the factory is not producing any aircraft
• the factory has difficulty producing parts ranging from not being able to at all to it takes a very long time

That is not "zero actual information". One can make some pretty good assumptions based on this information already.

[rogerl]

 

Confusion about the difference between a charitable initiative and a business enterprise?

A troubling trend: privatize profit, publicize cost/risk/loss.

[GeeBee]

10 hours ago, Brandt said:

No.  Nor did I ask for any.  I wonder how many people on Mooneyspace have written similar checks to golf or country clubs, private schools or other organizations to purchase access and outcomes without demanding an equity stake.  And for the money they are asking for, equity is a ridiculous request.  I’m prepaying a parts discount that could be saved back in one actuator purchase and I am helping ensure that the Mooney ownership doesn’t get swept up by a private equity entity that will put the screws to every single Mooney owner.

 

Then it is not an investment. Anymore than when I buy an automobile from a dealership and pre-pay a maintenance or warranty program. It is a purchase plain and simple. 

[Schllc]

If there is more information about what contribution will buy you I’d like to see.

i haven’t seen anything other than what is listed here.  One person said that it was covered at MooneyMax, but I don’t know what that means. 
I do have to say if they made an announcement to that small of a group, then they should certainly post those same details here as well. 
I am of the mind to participate if there is a tangible benefit. 
one big question I have is if the factory shuts down and there is no support, what will the impact be to insurance?  
if you cannot repair your plane after a gear up, what is insurance going to do?

[Brandt]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Then it is not an investment. Anymore than when I buy an automobile from a dealership and pre-pay a maintenance or warranty program. It is a purchase plain and simple. 

Your point?

[Paul Thomas]

19 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I am not a financial guy.  But as a normal person, I would probably buy some shares in a program where I had a position.  Maybe some day it would generate a return, but even if it didn't, I would own part of the process.

At Mooney MAX, they mentioned that they are creating a LASAR Aviation that will "own" LASAR and Mooney.   Maybe sell shares in that entity

 

Own all of Mooney or part of Mooney?

It's hard to understand how the membership program will work. It seems if you're AOG, you could just pay the membership to jump ahead of the line of the non-members and cancel. You may as well call it a rush fee.

[Pinecone]

As I understand it, they are buying all of Mooney.  They need to keep the Mooney name and location to keep the legal ability to make the parts under the existing approvals.

[toto]

I think this was mentioned earlier in the thread, but does anyone know how the Assurance program would affect the MSC network?  I'd prefer more, not fewer, MSCs, and the Assurance parts priority thing is a little bit hard for me to get my head around.  When I'm placing an order for a factory part but the order is submitted from my mx shop, I assume that Mooney has no idea who the ultimate buyer is.