Mooney Lycoming riveted turbo v clamp.

[flyboym20m]

Where may l find the FAA required AD riveted clamp?

[flyboym20m]

After several hours of searching l finally found the m20m riveted clamp at aircraft spruce. They have 5 available @ $1695.00

[PBones]

What gall they have to charge 16 large for a clamp that my friends and I use on auto turbos that cost 60 bucks for very good ones and 100 bucks for extremely good ones! On high performance exhaust systems we use high quality interlocking V bands that cost 35 bucks in stainless steel that look way better and function the same.

Sorry you had to go through that

[cliffy]

How many have ever broken on a car?

Why do you change them on a car?

What happens to the car if one breaks during a run?

Welcome to the world of aviation where AVIATION=$$$$$$    :-) :-)

No different than medicine where a drug I know of costs $360 for the brand name  yet the

generic costs $60

[LANCECASPER]

On 8/16/2025 at 7:06 PM, PBones said:

What gall they have to charge 16 large for a clamp that my friends and I use on auto turbos that cost 60 bucks for very good ones and 100 bucks for extremely good ones! On high performance exhaust systems we use high quality interlocking V bands that cost 35 bucks in stainless steel that look way better and function the same.

Sorry you had to go through that

I'm glad he was able to find one. 

I was reminded many years ago that if you paid $200,000 for the airplane you're not maintaining a $200,000 airplane. You're maintaining a 20-30 year old version (more likely to need replacements parts) of an $800,000 airplane (what it would cost to build today). Just like if you pay $10,000 for a 10 year old car that cost $50,000 when new - the price you paid for the car doesn't make the replacement parts any less expensive.

In aviation the cost of tooling is spread over far fewer parts - that's one reason. The other more expensive reason is liability. Let's say they sell 1000 parts and they get sued for $1,000,000. They have to spread the cost of their exposure (liability insurance) over those parts. 

None of us like it - but eventually you accept it or you get out of flying. 

[PBones]

On 8/18/2025 at 12:07 PM, cliffy said:

How many have ever broken on a car?

Why do you change them on a car?

What happens to the car if one breaks during a run?

Welcome to the world of aviation where AVIATION=$$$$$$    :-) :-)

No different than medicine where a drug I know of costs $360 for the brand name  yet the

generic costs $60

 

You asked:

None I have ever raced have broken since they are extremely heavy duty (they should let us put them on these turbos)

When we want to put a different or larger turbo or intake system

It will keep running but they never break since they are 5 times stronger than that cheap Rajay spot welded sheet metal clamps designed for cost effectiveness in the 1970s and very little improvements to the 1500 dollar replacements.

So overcharging for parts and drugs is acceptable? Your example of 360 vs 60 is only 6 times the cost, the clamp is 90 times the cost of a generic stainless one.

Thanks for welcoming me to the world of Aviation, it is pretty cool, but we should never accept the gouging and being taken advantage of. Why should we?

[DonMuncy]

2 hours ago, PBones said:

Thanks for welcoming me to the world of Aviation, it is pretty cool, but we should never accept the gouging and being taken advantage of. Why should we?

I agree with you, but sometimes we have no choice.

[M20F-1968]

It is basic economics, these prices are determined by supply and demand and greed.

John Breda

[IvanP]

Greed probably being a very important factor here. Being the sole approved source of a mission-critical part is essentially a license to print money - you can charge whatever you want and people will buy it. Another nice example of greed-based pricing is the BK trim switch that contains 3 simple microswitches that can individually be procured for about $10-20  each retail from various sources. Textron sells the complete trim switch for about $1,600 if I recall correctly. The good part is that this switch is not a mission-critical part and it can be repaired by hangar elves  whereas the V-band clamp cannot and failure of the clamp will, at best, ground the plane if discovered during inspection, or cause big problems for the occupants of the plane if it completely fails in flight.

[DonMuncy]

I suppose one could call each vendor and ask how they set their prices. If you are convinced they are having to pay horrendous prices for the part in question, you could leave them on your list of people you try to buy from. If you are convinced they are just sticking it to you because they can; you can buy from them only when you are grounded without the part, but to refuse use them otherwise.

[MikeOH]

6 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

It is basic economics, these prices are determined by ...  greed.

John Breda

This is the correct answer for these V-band clamps!

[cliffy]

I would like to look into how the manufacturer sells the part and the middleman markup BUT

I presume the manufacturer sets a high price because -

He has to trace the part from the metal composition in the sheets he punches the bands from all the way 

to final inspection and be able to go back and trace any issues that come up.

Traceability and inspection along with record keeping are what separate aviation parts from commercial ones.

We can also blame the airplane manufacturer for specifying that ONE part with no alternatives. 

@MikeOH  My point being that its a closed box that we are locked into with no way out but what we see.

Small market locked into declining suppliers on legally binding rules. Its easy to see $$$$$$ in that environment.  

There is no alternative- pay to play    Unfortunately this is why our segment of aviation (mid 60s to 80s) is going away. What will happen in 25 years when we have a few thousand LESS Mooneys in the field due to attrition? What will the supplier market look like then?

As I've said before-  "We wreck'm faster than we build them (cause we ain't building any more).

The market will only get worse as time goes on and we try to keep antiques flying. Just a point of reference- there are auto shops charging $250/hr to work on 60s to 80s cars just because of the parts supply issues. I also know of one very well known aircraft shop that raises their rates high enough just to lower their exposure to "complainers"-  read that "cheap bastards".  Its just the way our world is. I know of good honest shops at a fair price but even they don't control the parts pricing. 

Unfortunately we are stuck with what we have. Complain all we want but it won't change the dynamics at all. 

[Pinecone]

On 8/22/2025 at 11:34 AM, cliffy said:

I would like to look into how the manufacturer sells the part and the middleman markup BUT

I presume the manufacturer sets a high price because -

He has to trace the part from the metal composition in the sheets he punches the bands from all the way 

to final inspection and be able to go back and trace any issues that come up.

Traceability and inspection along with record keeping are what separate aviation parts from commercial ones.

We can also blame the airplane manufacturer for specifying that ONE part with no alternatives. 

@MikeOH  My point being that its a closed box that we are locked into with no way out but what we see.

Since the spot welded clamp was a $300 part when the AD came out, and the riveted clamp is over $1000 now.  And both had the same traceability and liability issues, it really seems like the main component to the current price is greed.

[cliffy]

Limited supply of a mandated product = $$$$$$   but what is the alternative?  A dead airplane!

As our segment of aviation gets smaller (1950s -1990s) it ill only get worse.

The price goes up until the customer won't pay it.

The cost to maintain an antique will only rise

Look at the new car market and all the "dealer required " items we have now. THAT will only get larger as we move along and they want recurring payments for software just like big tech does today in the software field. 

Enjoy it while we can for our segment of aviation is going away.

Time marches on.

[LANCECASPER]

On the Mooney M20M the price on the clamp for the Lycoming engine was already close to $1000 before the AD came out.

[Schllc]

On 8/21/2025 at 8:32 AM, PBones said:

Thanks for welcoming me to the world of Aviation, it is pretty cool, but we should never accept the gouging and being taken advantage of. Why should we?

Don’t think anyone here is saying suck it up like money doesn’t matter. 
but there aren’t any legal options. 
how exactly would you fight back?

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

Don’t think anyone here is saying suck it up like money doesn’t matter. 
but there aren’t any legal options. 
how exactly would you fight back?

Yes, as a practical reality, there is not much to be done with getting vendors to cease greedy monopolistic pricing.  What would I do if I was unfortunate enough to need these V-band clamps?  

I.e., how would I 'fight back?'

I'd look at OPP...I would investigate my suspicion that the turbochargers on our aircraft are NOT any special design but, rather, an automotive design 'converted' to aviation via a different part number!  As such, I'd then determine the appropriate high-quality riveted automotive clamp.  Then find a willing DER to come up with a QA/testing protocol to 'test' the automotive part against the materials/properties of the old aviation clamp.  Finally, apply the OPP protocol using that 'testing' methodology to legally approve the use of the part on my aircraft.

The question is where each individual's 'pricing pain point' is located before going to that much trouble.  It appears that many here are 'happy' to pay the current $1700 price...but everyone is going to cry 'uncle' at some point.  Again, just my guess, but if the OPP method proves viable, and others 'go to that  trouble' we will magically see the price of these clamps plummet to a fair price.

[cliffy]

But the OPP will be way more than $1700

You need a DER to sign off o it.

AND- Remember NO OPP can market the part to others

It takes a DER for each owner

Now you might find a DER that will "re-engineer" each subsequent clamp

for follow on owners at a reduced rate per. 

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

But the OPP will be way more than $1700

You need a DER to sign off o it.

AND- Remember NO OPP can market the part to others

It takes a DER for each owner

Now you might find a DER that will "re-engineer" each subsequent clamp

for follow on owners at a reduced rate per. 

That's why I'd use the commercially available automotive part as a 'base part' to upscreen and prove it is equal or better than the aviation part; so, way less than $1700.

Yes, the DER would be one plane at a time...and, his cost might ruin the financial break-even.

Again, my response is how I would proceed to investigate an alternative.  Might not workout...but I'd try it before bending over and just accepting $1700 for a 50 buck part!

[IvanP]

A while ago, there was a thread that mentioned GAMI's design of this clamp being in process of approval.

 https://mooneyspace.com/topic/47643-bravo-aog-need-the-dreaded-v-band-clamp/page/3/

The design looked much more robust that what we are currently using. Notwithstanding my dislike to their marketing practices related to G100UL fuel, I hope that that can get the clamp design approved. Of course, we have no idea what would such clamp go for from GAMI. Maybe there are other producers of parts who would want to take a crack at redesiging it. Producing aviation parts is definitely not a cheap endeavor. 

[cliffy]

One would still have to have a PMA to sell the part to others. Even if such a part could be STC'd to use. 

PMA compliance and insurance for the product is not a cheap endeavor 

It "might" be possible as @MikeOH says but I think its a long shot on such a critical part.

Many have died because of the failure of this clamp

This is a single point of failure with tragic results if it does fail. 

It is nothing to trifle with. 

[DonMuncy]

34 minutes ago, cliffy said:

 

Many have died because of the failure of this clamp

 

Not denying your statement, but do you or anyone know how many failures and how many deaths?

[Pinecone]

And the pictures of clamps with issues that were the basis of the AD were visually in VERY BAD shape.