Cabin Door seal

[DRCGAI]

I'm in search for a factory cabin door seal for a MJ20.  Seem to be very hard to find.  Any hints or directions?

[Paul Thomas]

I haven't looked at the parts guide yet but the seal on my airplane is: "912002-1 AMS 3207M 230M760 KR1Q99". It has seen better days and it is something I intend to replace.

[DRCGAI]

I have contacted Lasar-www.lasar.com . It is a waiting game as the manufacturer will only make them if there are enough to make it cost effective. Its been 5 months so I'm hoping something is out there.  

[wombat]

I replaced mine with this one: https://www.aircraftdoorseals.com/door-seal-entry-door-mooney-m20-series-ads-m1201/

It works SO much better than the one that was on it before.  It actually stops almost all of the noise.

[PT20J]

Mooney used Brown Aircraft T-9088 which is neoprene. https://www.brownaircraft.com/T-9088-Sponge-Rubber-Bulb-Seal-p/t-9088.htm 

@Gee Bee Aeroproductsmakes a carbon copy out of silicone. 
 

[jetdriven]

T-9088 was for later airplanes.  It is a P shaped seal.  The correct seal for earlier planes is the BA-1706M which Brown stopped offering and the factory only makes infrequently.  We have the Gee Bee seal on our plane  and although it works for us it’s not easy to install and I’m not sure how many times you have to reposition it to get the door to close and still also seal.  We got lucky the first time. We have since stopped installing non-factory seals because we end up with low customer satisfaction and we spend 8 hours doing a job that  we bill the customer 3 for, and they’re still not happy.

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, DRCGAI said:

I'm in search for a factory cabin door seal for a MJ20.  Seem to be very hard to find.  Any hints or directions?

There has been a lot written on door seals. Search is your friend on Mooneyspace.

 

https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q="Door seal"&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=4&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy

[DCarlton]

6 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

There has been a lot written on door seals. Search is your friend on Mooneyspace.

 

https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q="Door seal"&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=4&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy

How the heck did you search and pull up that many hits?  I never have much luck searching on MS.   I usually end up going to Google and it sometimes leads me back to MS.  

[LANCECASPER]

Just now, DCarlton said:

How the heck did you search and pull up that many hits?  I never have much luck searching on MS.   I usually end up going to Google and it sometimes leads me back to MS.  

I typed in "door seal" on the search (with the quotes on it) to get that result.

[PT20J]

Per the IPC, the original M20J seal was a Brown BA-189-139. It had a foam core that deteriorated over time. Brown told me it is obsolete and superseded by the T-9088 which is also shown in the IPC. As Byron notes, the positioning is critical for these seals. 

[201Steve]

5 hours ago, wombat said:

I replaced mine with this one: https://www.aircraftdoorseals.com/door-seal-entry-door-mooney-m20-series-ads-m1201/

It works SO much better than the one that was on it before.  It actually stops almost all of the noise.

That looks nice. 

[Paul Thomas]

5 hours ago, jetdriven said:

T-9088 was for later airplanes.  It is a P shaped seal.  The correct seal for earlier planes is the BA-1706M which Brown stopped offering and the factory only makes infrequently.  We have the Gee Bee seal on our plane  and although it works for us it’s not easy to install and I’m not sure how many times you have to reposition it to get the door to close and still also seal.  We got lucky the first time. We have since stopped installing non-factory seals because we end up with low customer satisfaction and we spend 8 hours doing a job that  we bill the customer 3 for, and they’re still not happy.

BA-1706-M is currently in stock. 
https://www.brownaircraft.com/product-p/ba-706-m.htm?srsltid=AfmBOoqww7rzFP5oM2yT0COY8EddSK1ghN9-u8oJk54QOsyH0XdX3myy

 

They have some in stock right now; 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

Safe Skis aviation installed and verified fitment before issue a purchase order.

Were confident on the ams3301 spec material 

[PT20J]

7 hours ago, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

Safe Skis aviation installed and verified fitment before issue a purchase order.

Were confident on the ams3301 spec material 

That one looks well placed. Most common mistake is not placing it near enough to the edge of the door. 

[Scottknoll]

Just to pass along some information. The entire door apparently needs removed from the airplane to properly install this Mooney door seal kit. Not sure if it is due to the type of glue required (low viscosity?), but my A&P and I determined it was not worth the effort. Seal seemed quality and I’m sure would work very well if properly installed. I have a set (Cabin & Baggage) for sale if anyone wants to make an offer.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

It's best to remove door and place on table , use toluene or 3m adhesive remover to remove the 1300 l or barge cement , brass brush helps .

Apply masking tape to both edges.

The cement is two part silicone type.

 

[Schllc]

10 hours ago, Scottknoll said:

Just to pass along some information. The entire door apparently needs removed from the airplane to properly install this Mooney door seal kit. Not sure if it is due to the type of glue required (low viscosity?), but my A&P and I determined it was not worth the effort. Seal seemed quality and I’m sure would work very well if properly installed. I have a set (Cabin & Baggage) for sale if anyone wants to make an offer.

That is not correct at all, and I’m surprised an AP would tell you that. 
While it would absolutely be easier off the airplane, the difficulty of removing the door is more hassle than the extra difficulty with the door seal. 
removing the door guide/limiter makes the job a lot easier.

I have never heard of anyone removing the door for this. Not saying it hasn’t happened, just that I have never heard of it done. 
although the instructions for the inflatable door seal said to remove the door as well. 

[PT20J]

Did you try removing the interior plastic trim and disconnecting the hold open arm at the bottom of the door? That’s how I installed mine and there was plenty of access. 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

It's not a inflation seal.

All installations are different based on how much cleaning of old cement.

I removed a door from a Late beech and it has layers of old cement .

 

[Schllc]

A brass wire brush on a drill takes about 30 min to clean off the old glue. 
Make sure you tape off the cabin for this because it flings debris everywhere , a mask and goggles are highly recommended. 
This is the most time consuming and difficult part of the job. 
While taking off the interior door panel is good for removing the old seal, in my experience, you need the panel in place during install to prevent your seal from interfering with the panel. 
The door does not need to be removed. 
It is very difficult, on most planes, to properly seat the seal so that it contacts the jamb all the way around. What I have done is use strips of blue tape every 6-10” to hold the seal in place while I open and close the door. Then use a lead pencil to mark the edges of the seal prior to applying the gluing.
It’s best to try to do the entire seal in one shot so that you can open and close the door with a flashlight and move the seal around for best fit. Once it’s attained, close the door and let the glue dry. 
I have changed this seal in 6 Mooney doors, and I have never gotten a factory seal to contact all the way around the door. 
The inflatable seal is foolproof and works better than anyone would believe without riding in the plane. 
I tried the first generation of geebee’s silicone door seal, it worked great on the baggage door but no matter where I placed it on the main door, it bound the door hinge. 
They have since reworked the seal and I dont believe this is an issue any longer. 
This would be my second choice behind the inflatable. 
The factory seal is just inadequate in my opinion. 
Disclaimer,  my entire focus is on noise. My understanding is that the inflatable seal can be problematic on the ramp for water intrusion so if you don’t have a hangar it may not be a good idea. I hangar my plane 95% of the time and when I’m traveling and staying on a ramp I use blue tape to cover the gap. 

[Marc_B]

@Schllc and @PT20J...we need a sticky with all of your pearls of wisdom like this!  or at least a way to "earmark" posts!

edit: I think we need door seal sticky thread since this has confounded and perplexed almost all who have ventured into this gooey unknown!  pics, words of wisdom, what works/doesn't, pros and cons.

[Marc_B]

Gee Bee silicone seal

            https://www.csobeech.com/GeeBee-DoorSeal.html

Brown T-9088

https://www.brownaircraft.com/T-9088-Sponge-Rubber-Bulb-Seal-p/t-9088.htm

Bob Fields Inflatable seal

https://aerocessories.aero/collections/mooney-collection/products/mooney-all-variants

Aircraft Door Seals

https://www.aircraftdoorseals.com/door-seal-entry-door-mooney-m20-series-ads-m1201/

 

Door Cotter pin AN380-2-2 (MS24665-132)

Washer AN960-10

Washer AN960-10L

 

PREVIOUS CLIPS FROM THE HALLS OF WISDOM:

The thin plastic with the foam core was probably BA-189-139. It is softer than the T-9088. But the problem with it is that the foam deteriorates over time and the seal loses its resiliency. Brown Aircraft discontinued it (I called them) and Mooney switched to the T-9088.  The T-9088 works but the positioning is critical.

The bottom is the hardest to get right because there are no latches or pins to hold the door tightly closed, the door hold-open arm is located on the bottom edge, and the curvature of the door frame corners does not match the curvature of the door. I had to remove the right seat and lay inside with the door closed and use a flashlight and a Sharpie to mark the proper location for the seal on the bottom. Along the top and sides, the centerline of the bulb should be placed on the line of rivets fastening the inner and outer door panels together.

A trick Don Maxwell uses if there is still an area (usually along the bottom) where the seal isn't tight enough even though it is positioned properly is to cut off a piece of the flat "tail" from a left over piece and glue that under the door seal to shim it a bit. I had to use that in one spot and it worked great.

 

3M yellow super weatherstrip adhesive works well and gives you a bit if working time to get the seal properly positioned. You need to get the old glue off with 3m general purpose adhesive remover. 

The problem with the 3M yellow adhesive is that many people use way too much of it. The instructions say to apply a thin coat. Also, applying more adhesive over old without removing the old causes buildups. You have to spray on the adhesive remover and then let it soak a while to soften the adhesive.

3M Stripe Off Wheel Adhesive Remover Eraser Wheel https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00063VT0G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_Cbp2Ab6DE434H?th=1

 

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/48744-window-and-door-seals/

SKIP:  It took me three tries to figure it out. In general, using the Brown T-9088 seal, I applied it so that the centerline of the bulb was on the rivet line where the inner and outer door skins are attached on the top and sides. The bottom is the hardest and the trick is to follow the contours of the door frame and not the door because they are not the same - especially the radii of the corners. When done, you can test the fit by closing the door on a piece of typing paper. The paper should be very difficult to pull out. If not, reposition the seal or shim it as required. (You can cut a piece off the tail of an unused piece of seal to use as a shim. The yellow 3M glue has enough open time to allow repositioning. And don’t use too much glue. A thin coat on each surface is all you need. Clean the seal off with denatured alcohol first to get a good bond. Then leave the door shut for a day or two. Initially it will be hard to close, but the seal will take a set and mold to the space between the door and the frame and eventually the door will be easy to close and won’t leak.

Schllc:  On the third door seal I installed,  I figured out using painters tape to place the seal and a flashlight from the inside to see where it wasn’t touching, illustrates where to move the seal for the glue portion of the process. 
Any gaps after that I use the 1/4” weatherstripping from Home Depot to close them, and . 
it works really well. 
I am sure with enough time and patience you could get the seal placed perfectly, but after four days of trial and error I gave in and cheated with the weatherstripping. 
For what it’s worth, geebee’s seals are really nice but they do not compress much at all [using older profile] and I had an issue with the hinge side of my door barely fitting the factory seal. It would just not accommodate the silicone seal. It worked wonderfully on the baggage door.

 

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/50322-pirep-gee-bee-aeroproducts-baggage-door-seal/

GeeBee Aeroproducts:

Remove all old cement with toluene 

mask both edges of seal

apply clear silicone cement, let dry 

apply clear silicone cement to seal in 3/5 inch increments and dry with hairdryer.

cure 18/24 hours before closure.

 

There are two ways to install the same seal :

apply with no stretch

apply with a little pull 

This will change the dimension of the seal .

Ref Beechcraft 

large gap, bulb on edge of door

close tolerance, bulb on inside edge 

I hope this helps you understand how the seal and tolerance fit together.

You can thin the Mooney seal by pulling it taunt during installation.

Cement a small section first and let cure before installing the rest of the seal.

start at the bottom and buttthe ends together.

Silicone will not shrink with temperature or age .

https://www.csobeech.com/GeeBee-DoorSeal.html

 

 

 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

Original ams3207 / foam core

lh pic

B727 nose gear door seal

center pic

later thinner P Seal

Rh pic

The best design is the Mu2 door / door seal .

 

 

[AndreiC]

My own experience has been that the T-9088 did not work for me, even though it was installed by an MSC. At first it was almost impossible to close the door (in fact I ended up ripping the leather door handle trying to close). The MSC said that this would get better after a few weeks, and surely over the summer. Well, it did not. 6 months later the door would still not close, and I would have to put various things in the cracks to stop the whistling noises.

I then asked the advice of another MSC, the owner of which looked disapprovingly at my seal and said it is not the correct one (I guess the correct one being BA-189-139). He sold me (for $$$) the correct seal. I installed it myself following his instructions, and it has been great. It is the one with the foam core. Three years down the road and it is still working perfectly, sealing noise very well.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

It's never the seals fault, it's the door  fitment also.

This is why we have two different versions of Beech door seal based on the tolerance.