Legal to Fly a J-Model without Wheel Covers?

[MooneyAcolyte]

Is it legal to fly a J-Model without the wheel covers (P/N 550091, see pic)? I would like to take them off for some repairs, but want to avoid being grounded for a long time. Any advise would be useful. Thanks in advance.

 

 

[0TreeLemur]

I don't know about legality- but it will fly and I'd bet you won't be able to tell the difference.

BTW, I've heard tell from an anonymous source that a M20J will fly without the belly panels, and its hard to tell except for the increased noise.  It wasn't me.

[Slick Nick]

I know lots of J's flying around without the inner doors. I was instructed to take mine off if I ever plan to land on taller grass.

There are shim washers that align the doors properly when closed. Make sure you don't mix them up or the doors will be misaligned on re installation.

[ArtVandelay]

Read POH, page 5-19, bullet #3.

[MooneyAcolyte]

24 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Read POH, page 5-19, bullet #3.

Interesting. I find it now back in the general PoH, but not in the one that came with my 1984 mode (S/N 24-1447).

[PT20J]

[AJ88V]

Off topic, but can the inner gear doors be added to an M20C model? (D,E,F?)

[Paul Thomas]

I'm missing one so I fly  without mine. I'd like to find a set and buy it as the one I have would need some work.

[Pinecone]

The POH excerpt, mentions the LOWER gear doors.  The picture shows an INNER gear door.

Different doors.

[EricJ]

28 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

The POH excerpt, mentions the LOWER gear doors.  The picture shows an INNER gear door.

Different doors.

So what is the lower gear door on a J model?

[PT20J]

Just now, EricJ said:

So what is the lower gear door on a J model?

Different nomenclature for different airplanes. For the non-205 M20J, this would be the "inboard" door. For the 205 and M20K (and others with three doors) it is the "middle" door.

[EricJ]

1 minute ago, PT20J said:

Different nomenclature for different airplanes. For the non-205 M20J, this would be the "inboard" door. For the 205 and M20K (and others with three doors) it is the "middle" door.

So, again, what are the "lower" gear doors mentioned in the POH?

[PT20J]

Just now, EricJ said:

So, again, what are the "lower" gear doors mentioned in the POH?

You expect the IPC and the POH to agree on terminology? 

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

The POH excerpt, mentions the LOWER gear doors.  The picture shows an INNER gear door.

Different doors.

 

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

So what is the lower gear door on a J model?

 

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

Different nomenclature for different airplanes. For the non-205 M20J, this would be the "inboard" door. For the 205 and M20K (and others with three doors) it is the "middle" door.

 

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

So, again, what are the "lower" gear doors mentioned in the POH?

 

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

You expect the IPC and the POH to agree on terminology? 

 

So, since it's crystal clear to you guys...is it legal for the OP to fly without P/N: 550091 doors on?

Would appreciate a YES/NO answer

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

Would appreciate a YES/NO answer

Yes. 

[toto]

I would have zero concern with a configuration that is specifically detailed in the flight manual and performed per the manual.

[PT20J]

Yes. To be strictly legal, you should have a logbook entry and update the W&B.

[MooneyAcolyte]

16 hours ago, Paul Thomas said:

I'm missing one so I fly  without mine. I'd like to find a set and buy it as the one I have would need some work.

I'm in the process of making replacement covers from carbon fibre as owner-produced parts as per FAA (see FAR 21.9 (a)(5)) and EASA (CS-STAN for standard changes according to 21.A.307(b)4). I'll report here on my prototypes and whether or not I get them approved by my A&P/IA (due end of February '25). Perhaps we can make a co-op effort to get enough wheel covers for everyone. I know Lasar is selling them for 1,4 k$ each here: https://lasar.com/doors/inner-main-gear-door-550060-001?rq=gear door

[Ibra]

Yes ok to remove everytime you take M20J to eat the turf and the mud? 

I am less keen on cleaning the gear wells now but 4 years ago the M20J had load of fun joining cows and pigs (one need a long strip, takeoff distance does go to infinity)

Edited December 21, 2024 by Ibra

[Ibra]

15 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Would appreciate a YES/NO answer

Damn easy in this case: YES 

Otherwise, welcome to MooneySpace we got plenty of pilots, mechanics...with different AFMs, SOPs and interpretations  once you have gone over all of it: you are now well informed and able to make your own mind 

(Joke) once the lawyers joins this conversation: it seems that POH allows it when flying in ice, mud and tall grass, I doubt about  legality on paved runway (unless your intention is to refuel before going on grass runway)

Edited December 21, 2024 by Ibra

[EricJ]

44 minutes ago, MooneyAcolyte said:

I'm in the process of making replacement covers from carbon fibre as owner-produced parts as per FAA (see FAR 21.9 (a)(5)) and EASA (CS-STAN for standard changes according to 21.A.307(b)4). I'll report here on my prototypes and whether or not I get them approved by my A&P/IA (due end of February '25). Perhaps we can make a co-op effort to get enough wheel covers for everyone. I know Lasar is selling them for 1,4 k$ each here: https://lasar.com/doors/inner-main-gear-door-550060-001?rq=gear door

I'd suggest an embedded metal strip where the fasteners attach to spread load there a bit, similar to what is done in the cowl.   Also, the doors need to flex a little bit so that they seal against the bottom of the wing when the gear comes up, so a piece that is too stiff or brittle may be prone to cracking from use.

You've probably already thought of this and more, but thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

[Ibra]

11 hours ago, PT20J said:

and update the W&B

Does that apply to components you are allowed to remove and put back according to some POH procedure? 

It's not just M20J wheel doors, same for wheel pants in C172 or PA28 (I think they are beyond one pound or less for an aircraft under 5,000 pounds)

I have not gone as far as checking WnB (it's easy to notice 3kts-5kts loss in cruise and one may need to update fuel burn tables)  

Edited December 21, 2024 by Ibra

[MooneyAcolyte]

I'd suggest an embedded metal strip where the fasteners attach to spread load there a bit, similar to what is done in the cowl.   Also, the doors need to flex a little bit so that they seal against the bottom of the wing when the gear comes up, so a piece that is too stiff or brittle may be prone to cracking from use.
You've probably already thought of this and more, but thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

Thanks - these are excellent suggestions that I will take into consideration for sure. I’ll keep you posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EricJ]

48 minutes ago, Ibra said:

Does that apply to components you are allowed to remove and put back according to some POH procedure? 

It's not just M20J wheel doors, same for wheel pants in C172 or PA28 (I think they are beyond one pound or less for an aircraft under 5,000 pounds)

I have not gone as far as checking WnB (it's easy to notice 3kts-5kts loss in cruise and one may need to update fuel burn tables)  

Generally, yes, also removing seats, etc., etc.   Often what is done is the aircraft has multiple WnB sheets reflecting multiple configurations, and you work off whichever is the current configuration.    Keep all of the relevant WnB sheets in the aircraft and you're always compliant if one of them reflects the current configuration.   This is done often for things like removing the rear doors and seats from an A36 for photography missions, removing seats to accomodate cargo, removing wheel pants, spinners, etc.

An alternative is to always compute a WnB for the current flight showing removal of the doors along with current passenger and fuel load, etc.   That's usually a bit more of a PITA than just having an additional WnB sheet.    If flying with no lower/inner/inboard doors is a common configuration, a WnB sheet for that configuration is probably worthwhile.  Updating the WnB can also serve as the means for updating the Equipment List by amending the addition or deletion of Equipment List components on the WnB sheet.

[PT20J]

When I flew Beavers part 135 we often removed seats to convert from carrying passengers to carrying cargo (usually fish boxes, this being in Alaska). We carried W&B forms for each configuration so it was easy to calculate W&B which we were required to do before each flight.

I don't have a separate W&B sheet for the Mooney for when I fold down the back seats, because I'm only removing cushions. But the rear cushions for my airplane weigh 22.4 lbs., so it is important to include them in any W&B calculations if you are anywhere near limits.