Buying a used Ovation 2

[Fly Boomer]

On 5/28/2024 at 4:30 AM, Jose Jo said:

plane should be in the 1000Nm range

Sue Bon may have something for you (above), and it may be a little closer to home.

[Jose Jo]

On 6/3/2024 at 1:34 PM, Sue Bon said:

I heard about an Ovation owner at my home airport looking to sell as he wants to buy a Meridian or Malibu or something. If you want, I can look into it for you. It's a N reg and is apparently a great plane. Garmin 1000 WAAS and FIKI. Not too sure about much else, but I'm happy to ask him...

Hi Sue, Sorry I missed your message. Thank you for your kind offer; sure I would love to know about it

[Sue Bon]

13 hours ago, Jose Jo said:

Hi Sue, Sorry I missed your message. Thank you for your kind offer; sure I would love to know about it

So... I checked and the Malibu he had in mind fell through and he has since decided to keep his Ovation for a while. Sorry about that.

[Paul Thomas]

I found that the SR22 makes book numbers; I'd look into why yours doesn't. You'll gain range with the Ovation but, unless you cut out a fuel stop, I'd look at how much block time you will actually save vs. the cost/pain of switching aircrafts.

Flying 1000 NM in one hop is great in theory but impractical on a regular basis unless you fly alone. My wife puts up with a lot, but she's no longer ok going with my mentality of we're only stopping for fuel; bathroom break have to be included. I've found that 1,200 NM is all I want to do in a single day; two 600 mn legs make for easy flying, give me time to stop for food and stretch my legs, and I'm not tired when we arrive. Further than that and it's time to consider leaving it to the pros.

[Jose Jo]

2 hours ago, Paul Thomas said:

I found that the SR22 makes book numbers; I'd look into why yours doesn't. You'll gain range with the Ovation but, unless you cut out a fuel stop, I'd look at how much block time you will actually save vs. the cost/pain of switching aircrafts.

Flying 1000 NM in one hop is great in theory but impractical on a regular basis unless you fly alone. My wife puts up with a lot, but she's no longer ok going with my mentality of we're only stopping for fuel; bathroom break have to be included. I've found that 1,200 NM is all I want to do in a single day; two 600 mn legs make for easy flying, give me time to stop for food and stretch my legs, and I'm not tired when we arrive. Further than that and it's time to consider leaving it to the pros.

Not quite so, the POH had to be rectified because it was more for marketing than for real travel. Most Cirrus owners don't get those numbers and we have tried a few. Maybe the newer ones are more adjusted but then you are beyond a million dollars..... Then, older models (2006) start losing performance. Our POH gives almost 1100Nm at 55% which is ridiculous, with 700Nm you should be seriously planning to land ASAP.

We have a great ocean a few miles away with Azores, Madeira and Canary Islands so if you go there there is no option to stop, anyhow its good to have it available even if you don't use often.

Thank you, I agree with what you say.

[Bolter]

39 minutes ago, Jose Jo said:

Not quite so, the POH had to be rectified because it was more for marketing than for real travel. Most Cirrus owners don't get those numbers and we have tried a few. Maybe the newer ones are more adjusted but then you are beyond a million dollars..... Then, older models (2006) start losing performance. Our POH gives almost 1100Nm at 55% which is ridiculous, with 700Nm you should be seriously planning to land ASAP.

We have a great ocean a few miles away with Azores, Madeira and Canary Islands so if you go there there is no option to stop, anyhow its good to have it available even if you don't use often.

Thank you, I agree with what you say.

The Azores are over 900 nm from Porto.  You will also need water survival gear, which will eat up a lot of space and useful load, preventing you from using full tanks. 

Are there many pistons making that route?  I would want more than 1100 nm range for reserves as the winds can change significantly during that transit time. 

[Jose Jo]

20 hours ago, Bolter said:

The Azores are over 900 nm from Porto.  You will also need water survival gear, which will eat up a lot of space and useful load, preventing you from using full tanks. 

Are there many pistons making that route?  I would want more than 1100 nm range for reserves as the winds can change significantly during that transit time. 

I have friends that have done it, mainly Canary Islands and Madeira but also Azores. As far as I know none of them were adequately equipped. A cirrus like the one I fly (SR22 G2 81GAL) went to Canary Islands direct (maybe not a great idea to stop at Morocco), luggage, life raft  4 on board full fuel (?).

A more reasonable option would be Portimao-Madeira or Cascais-Madeira (Cascais has become very difficult), then to Azores. There is also a special permit to go beyond MTOW, I think I wouldn't take that option.

Yes, I agree with what you say.

[Alan Maurer]

Premier Aircraft in Ft. Lauderdale's has  nice 2006 Mooney Ovaton. Probably 103 gallons . G1000 and no damage history. 

 Sounds like the one you are looking at has a lot of expensive issues. Approach speed will always be75 kts. Take a look!

Better buying in the USA 

Alan

N913ND M20 

[Sue Bon]

19 minutes ago, Alan Maurer said:

Better buying in the USA 

Why?

[Z W]

I have a M20K model with 105 gallon tanks.  If you fill them up, it will fly 8.75 hours at 12 GPH and anywhere from 160-185 KTAS, going from 9,000 to 18,000 feet.  In theory, that gives it a no-wind no-reserve range of 1,400 - 1,618 nautical miles.

I still don't count on going 1,000 NM non-stop on a regular basis. 

With 105 gallons of fuel, there's useful load for pilot + bags only.  No passengers.  Add a passenger, lose some fuel, lose some range.

The next challenge is wind.  If you have a tailwind it's often no problem.  Somehow I usually have a headwind both ways.  At the higher altitudes it gets stronger.  Add a 25 knot headwind at 9,000 feet and your max no-wind no-reserve range drops to just 1,181, with 105 gallons of fuel, and an unsatisfying 135 knot ground speed, for up to 8.75 hours.

Then you have weather.  On every 1,000 NM trip I expect to cross a weather front.  There will be clouds in the way.  Your 1,000 NM direct trip can easily become a 1,200 NM trip with deviations around weather.  And then you still need to account for passenger useful load, winds, and reserve fuel.

Also don't forget oxygen.  If you don't have enough O2 for 8.75 hours of flight for two people, plus the return flight unless you can get O2 filled at your destination, you'll have to stay under 12,500 feet, and may not get to use the tailwind the whole way.

Finally, flying for more than 3.5 hours isn't for everyone.  I'm ready to get out by then.  You can do 1,000 NM hops, sometimes, if you really want to, but 500-600 NM flights are much better.

I believe the Ovations will burn slightly more fuel and have slightly less range than these numbers, maybe with higher speeds, especially down low. 

As far as I know the Mooneys are some of the best options available for range, but this has been my real-world experience.

[ArtVandelay]

Why?

Better selection. There’s simply more to choose from.

[Jose Jo]

On 6/8/2024 at 7:48 AM, Alan Maurer said:

Premier Aircraft in Ft. Lauderdale's has  nice 2006 Mooney Ovaton. Probably 103 gallons . G1000 and no damage history. 

 Sounds like the one you are looking at has a lot of expensive issues. Approach speed will always be75 kts. Take a look!

Better buying in the USA 

Alan

N913ND M20 

WILCO

 

thank you

[Jose Jo]

On 6/8/2024 at 1:24 PM, Z W said:

I have a M20K model with 105 gallon tanks.  If you fill them up, it will fly 8.75 hours at 12 GPH and anywhere from 160-185 KTAS, going from 9,000 to 18,000 feet.  In theory, that gives it a no-wind no-reserve range of 1,400 - 1,618 nautical miles.

I still don't count on going 1,000 NM non-stop on a regular basis. 

With 105 gallons of fuel, there's useful load for pilot + bags only.  No passengers.  Add a passenger, lose some fuel, lose some range.

The next challenge is wind.  If you have a tailwind it's often no problem.  Somehow I usually have a headwind both ways.  At the higher altitudes it gets stronger.  Add a 25 knot headwind at 9,000 feet and your max no-wind no-reserve range drops to just 1,181, with 105 gallons of fuel, and an unsatisfying 135 knot ground speed, for up to 8.75 hours.

Then you have weather.  On every 1,000 NM trip I expect to cross a weather front.  There will be clouds in the way.  Your 1,000 NM direct trip can easily become a 1,200 NM trip with deviations around weather.  And then you still need to account for passenger useful load, winds, and reserve fuel.

Also don't forget oxygen.  If you don't have enough O2 for 8.75 hours of flight for two people, plus the return flight unless you can get O2 filled at your destination, you'll have to stay under 12,500 feet, and may not get to use the tailwind the whole way.

Finally, flying for more than 3.5 hours isn't for everyone.  I'm ready to get out by then.  You can do 1,000 NM hops, sometimes, if you really want to, but 500-600 NM flights are much better.

I believe the Ovations will burn slightly more fuel and have slightly less range than these numbers, maybe with higher speeds, especially down low. 

As far as I know the Mooneys are some of the best options available for range, but this has been my real-world experience.

yes, I agree. It is not my goal to do 1000Nm trips but to be able to do them if need be. As I said before, I live right next to the Atlantic so if you are going anywhere west you should have the 1000Nm capability and pray you never need it.

This is Europe, and aeronautical life is not easy: no fuel, bureaucracy, PPR, handling, high prices, short runways etc etc, sometimes you are much better off skipping that type of airport even if it means 900Nm. Furthermore, its also a pleasure to do a stop for fun, to relax or just because fuel is unavailable or too expensive; then you just continue with your 1000Nm range.