Electric Mooney

[Fly Boomer]

9 minutes ago, hammdo said:

Lots of chargers here in DFW so it works for them - if they need a supercharger vs home charger.

Traveling long distances- not ready for prime time…

I think I read that the average US driver goes 30-something miles per day.  Back in your garage at the end of day, you plug it in, and it's ready again the following morning.  To make it work, you need a charger in your garage on a 30- or 40-amp circuit.  Most Tesla drivers don't charge away from home.  It's like having a gas station at your house.

[A64Pilot]

46 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

That's similar to the experience Pepsi is having with their Tesla fleet.  They move product from a production facility to a distribution facility (California, I think).  Truck is fully charged overnight.  They head out in the morning for a few hundred miles.  When they get to their destination, they charge while the truck is being unloaded -- takes about 30 minutes to get back up to 80% or 90%.  When the truck is unloaded, they head back to headquarters, and do it again the following day.

Pepsi has a Tesla Semi?

I didn’t know any were on the road

[Fly Boomer]

1 minute ago, A64Pilot said:

Pepsi has a Tesla Semi?

I didn’t know any were on the road

I think Pepsi was the first customer.  I'm sure they still have more Diesel than electric, but I read that they have several Tesla trucks hauling product every day.

[A64Pilot]

5 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I think Pepsi was the first customer.  I'm sure they still have more Diesel than electric, but I read that they have several Tesla trucks hauling product every day.

Yeah I was just reading about it. Apparently the CARB gave Pepsi 31 million dollars in a grant to buy the 21 trucks.

‘I would have thought that Pepsi could afford them

[Fly Boomer]

Just now, A64Pilot said:

Yeah I was just reading about it. Apparently the CARB gave Pepsi 31 million dollars in a grant to buy the trucks.

‘I would have thought that Pepsi could afford them

No doubt Pepsi could afford it but when the government wants to give you 31 million dollars. what can you do?  It's like the government offering money to a small airfield with turf runways if they will lengthen the runway and make it a hard surface -- many of the conventional gear guys are opposed, but the new runway usually gets built anyway.

[A64Pilot]

I guess but I don’t think our money should be spent that way, essentially gifts to very wealthy companies.

An argument could be made for the airport saying at least the flying public will benefit from the money being spent. But I don’t see how anyone but Tesla and Pepsico could benefit from the gift of 31 Million dollars. My belief is both Tesla and Pepsi are strong financially and don’t need taxpayer money.

Now if it were for city busses that were to be free rides then sure spend taxpayer money.

[wombat]

Everybody has their own projects they want everybody else's money spent on.    They have those that they think don't get their fair share, and those that they think receive too much.

Why, if it was up to me, we'd have.....   nevermind. 

[Schllc]

The impetus for EV in the first place was emissions and environmental impact. 
There is little to no evidence that this is either feasible or efficacious to that end.

There is good reason to pursue alternate energy sources.  The market can decide, and ultimately will.  However, having it forced without clear benefits and commensurate with the technology, doesn’t seem appropriate or smart. 
Electric aviation is a complete fantasy without radical battery innovation. 
 

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

The impetus for EV in the first place was emissions and environmental impact. 
There is little to no evidence that this is either feasible or efficacious to that end.

There is good reason to pursue alternate energy sources.  The market can decide, and ultimately will.  However, having it forced without clear benefits and commensurate with the technology, doesn’t seem appropriate or smart. 
Electric aviation is a complete fantasy without radical battery innovation. 
 

Excellent post; all your points are spot on!

[CMMPilot]

As many of you discerned, I was joking about putting the motor in the Mooney. Although I had no idea it would spark such a conversation, I found the comments both entertaining and informative. Truly a group of intellectuals, the Mooney family. 
I thought I’d share the real reason for the photo. 
I purchased a new 15hp pump motor for my Orange Grove irrigation system. Unfortunately it was located in Naples FL, about a 3.5 hour drive each way. The OBVIOUS solution was to fly down and pick it up!!! After measuring and weighing in at 255lbs, I determined I could do it. 
Remove the right seat, adjust the weight and balance and we were on the way. 
luckily the place was actually located on the airport industrial park so he said he would bring it over to the FBO. You can imagine the looks I got when they saw the Mooney against this seemingly huge motor. 
With a little help from a strong line guy, we carefully moved it from the pallet to the floor of the aircraft. Strapped it in and we were off again. 2.5 hour round trip!

Getting it out at the hangar was even easier with the hoist system I built to hold up my engine when I put the plane on jacks. The overall success of the trip made it that much more fun. I love flying and I love my Mooney!!! Seeing it hanging in front of the plane inspired the joke…
Here are some photos. 

[A64Pilot]

11 hours ago, Schllc said:

The impetus for EV in the first place was emissions and environmental impact. 
There is little to no evidence that this is either feasible or efficacious to that end.

There is good reason to pursue alternate energy sources.  The market can decide, and ultimately will.  However, having it forced without clear benefits and commensurate with the technology, doesn’t seem appropriate or smart. 
Electric aviation is a complete fantasy without radical battery innovation. 
 

There is actually excellent evidence and has been for decades, this is actually Elon Musk’s first “master plan” written way back in 2006.

He has published I believe three master plans

It should be noted that the Model 3 even though it’s bigger than the roadster is even more efficient than the roadster that these numbers are predicated on.

You say EVs are predicated on environment, maybe for most but for me not. I used to drive Diesels only based on economics, yes you paid more to purchase but as the fuel was much less than gas and they burned less of it, it was much cheaper to fuel than a gasoline vehicle. That ended of course with ULSD, and whenever possible I won’t have a Diesel now. Diesel now is on average about $1 a gallon more than gas.

Anyway read this article and then tell me that there is no evidence that EV’s don’t have less impact on emissions, that no one has “run the numbers” because someone did nearly 20 years ago.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me

[A64Pilot]

Saw this video this morning at a neighborhood get together, for those that don’t really understand EV performance this illustrates it pretty good, we all know Porsche 911’s aren’t dogs, but watch this drag race against the Cyber Truck and a 911.

 

[AndreiC]

@CMMPilot -- you just coined a new term, "MUV" -- Mooney Utility Vehicle

 

[A64Pilot]

Carrying a heavy weight is the same as a heavy pax, but I think it might be prudent to put it on a piece of plywood to distribute the weight and protect the seat rails in the future. Pretty sure no harm was done just cheap insurence

 

[whiskytango]

I have gotten into the habit of renting a Tesla whenever I am on a business trip.  I really enjoy driving the car, and the engineer in me likes converting kinetic energy to battery capacity with regenerative braking, rather than waste heat in the brake pads and rotors.  The rental company (Hertz) has been pricing the rental rate for a Tesla less than a comparable ICE car.  If I have time I will stop at a Supercharger to put a charge on the battery, but even if I don't I haven't seen a line item in the final bill for battery charging.

[A64Pilot]

To continue busting the myths, this one being the EV thing has run it’s course and aren’t selling. So what was the best selling vehicle in the world  in the first quarter of 2023?

https://www.motor1.com/news/669135/tesla-model-y-worlds-best-selling-car-q1-2023/

[Schllc]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

To continue busting the myths, this one being the EV thing has run it’s course and aren’t selling. So what was the best selling vehicle in the world  in the first quarter of 2023?

https://www.motor1.com/news/669135/tesla-model-y-worlds-best-selling-car-q1-2023/

What are total EV sales vs sales of gas cars?

also, that’s from the first quarter of the year.thats a looooong time ago in economic environment terms. 
that being said, I can’t speak for everyone else, but I didn’t say it’s a fad that is over. 
I just said we aren’t ready technology wise, and they are not a net benefit to the environment. 
The tailpipe emissions are only a tiny part of the carbon footprint, not to mention the durability and disposal issues. 
It’s probably safe to say electric cars aren’t going away, but they are not the panacea that the loons are claiming. 

[A64Pilot]

Nothing is the panacea the loons claim.

There exists no perfect airplane or car, house boat whatever, everything has drawbacks.

Having said that personally I don’t care about environmental issues, Global warming or whatever. I believe the superior technology will rise to the top if we let it, and I believe since the development of Lithium Ion batteries electricity is it, it wasn’t with lead acid or NiMh though.

I want an affordable, safe car for the Wife to drive and one that doesn’t break the bank to drive and own. Ideally one that’s fun to drive and to be fun for me it has to accelerate well and handle well. Ideally I want it to be US made and owned by a US company. I don’t have anything against Japan, Korea etc, but I’d prefer it if my money stayed in the US and didn’t enrich foreign Countries. Tesla fills all those wants or has so far. I still say talk to me in seven years, because I need a car to last at least ten years, twenty is better. I can no longer afford new every few years.

But speaking of those Loons, I’m of the opinion that one of their agenda’s is to drive the price of fossil fuel as high as they can by whatever means they have at their disposal. In my opinion political pressure is the only reason fuel isn’t North of $6 a gallon and I don’t want to be in those fuel lines like I was in the 70’s, nor do I want to have to reset the fuel pump because it will only dispense $150 at a time like I had to not so long ago.

Having an EV in the garage beside the gas car I believe covers me both ways, and the EV is far cheaper to drive than even a Prius.

Let’s run the numbers on a car that gets 40 MPG. If it drives 12,000 miles a year then divide that by 40 gets you 300 gls of gas multiply that by $3 a gl gets you $900. We drove the Tesla about that milage for $600.

If you use the national average of 25.7 MPG it’s $1,400 in fuel.

Yet many are convinced without Government subsidies that it cost more to drive an EV, because they are told so. Where does that come from?

My children may see viable electric aircraft but I don’t think I will, to be honest I think the writing is on the wall for an airplane that the common man can afford, as it is there are no Certified new aircraft that the common man can afford already. Only reason I can is I’m an IA and fly antiques that are older than my adult children, one is older than I am and I just qualified for Medicare. New is way out of my price range as I suspect it is for most of us on the forum.

[Fly Boomer]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:54 AM, A64Pilot said:

Saw this video this morning at a neighborhood get together, for those that don’t really understand EV performance this illustrates it pretty good, we all know Porsche 911’s aren’t dogs, but watch this drag race against the Cyber Truck and a 911.

That was hilarious.  Is that another 911 on the trailer?  It went by pretty fast.

[Hank]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:54 AM, A64Pilot said:

Saw this video this morning at a neighborhood get together, for those that don’t really understand EV performance this illustrates it pretty good, we all know Porsche 911’s aren’t dogs, but watch this drag race against the Cyber Truck and a 911.

The EV will do that once, then the battery / motor is too hot to do it again. The gas-powered car will do so repeatedly. 

[Fly Boomer]

54 minutes ago, Hank said:

The EV will do that once, then the battery / motor is too hot to do it again. The gas-powered car will do so repeatedly. 

Back-to-back runs against a 1,000 hp mustang.  Mustang beats the Tesla, but the Tesla was faster on the second run.  Maybe the hot motor helped?

https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/watch-shelby-gt500-beat-tesla-model-s-plaid-drag-race-1234627719/

 

[A64Pilot]

18 hours ago, Hank said:

The EV will do that once, then the battery / motor is too hot to do it again. The gas-powered car will do so repeatedly. 

Years ago that was true, and I’ve heard but can’t verify that’s it’s true for the electric Porsche.

Oh, and there is NO gas car that can do it even once, even the multi million dollar super cars that you never see, or I don’t anyway.

Just like used to be the stupid performance level the Tesla Plaid is capable of it means the battery has to be pre-heated (several minutes wait) and performance degraded significantly as State of charge decreases.

Apparently both of those issue have been addressed with the Cybertruck.

If you’re really interested, watch this, this guy honestly understand the Engineering or is schooled by someone that does I don’t know which.

Of course for those that want to continue to deny reality, I’d suggest don’t waste your time. I can’t afford the truck myself  and aren’t sure I would want to drive something that outlandish looking, but it seems it continues to evolve Tesla automobiles.

 

[Hank]

My brother's Audi goes 0-60 in 2.9. Runs on gas. That's fast enough to make me dizzy when I lift my head from the headrest.

[A64Pilot]

14 hours ago, Hank said:

My brother's Audi goes 0-60 in 2.9. Runs on gas. That's fast enough to make me dizzy when I lift my head from the headrest.

But can it haul over a ton in the bed? How is it off road? With an EV you can have all of that, plus be far cheaper to drive. You may notice that I’m not saying anything about CO2 emissions etc. I’m sure those exist but they have nothing to do with why we have a Tesla, in truth I’d have one even if it were a gas car, the EV part is just icing on the cake, the fact that in reality it costs less than 1/3 of what it would cost to drive a similar capability gas car is more icing.

Internal combustion is hugely more complex, there are more moving parts in just the transmission than an entire EV, add in the engine to say nothing of the emission controls and you have a VERY complex machine.

We had a Toyota Prius for over a decade, great car but a hybrid has all the complexities of both an EV AND and ICE car, but even that little economy car and nothing with a gas engine is more frugal than a Prius cost more to drive than a Tesla Model 3. 

[A64Pilot]

Couple of charts for our car if anyone is interested, these charts are from Teslafi.com, third party subscription software that’s not affiliated with Tesla, but it queries the car and the car has apparently enormous amounts of information available. 

For those that  aren’t I apologize for wasting your time, but I feel that many of us Mooney drivers may be interested, because of the Mooney’s efficiency as measured in primarily it’s speed vs fuel burn. Not much else can fly as cheaply as a Mooney, I was surprised when I ran the numbers that fuel per mile burn of a Piper Cub was at least twice that of my Mooney, when I was at economy cruise anyway. I’m frugal as in I like feeling that I get more for less than most, and I think many of us are, so I make these posts trying to dispel the myths that are prevalent out there like if it weren’t for Government subsidies that EV’s are much more expensive to drive, when my experience is just the opposite so far. These are of course my experiences for someone living in Florida which means that of course we never see sub zero temps, but as I have the car set so that it won’t allow temps in excess of 90F in the interior about 1/3 of the power consumption on a daily average goes into keeping the cabin temp cool so it may actually be representative of the average US conditions I don’t know.

These charts are cumulative for almost three years and 30,000 miles so they ought to be about as accurate as they can be, most miles driven by my Wife to work and back as it’s her car. I assume these charts are only power consumed while driving and do not include the power consumed by the car keeping cool while it’s parked,( I think, that’s an assumption anyway) but you can of course turn that off, just it’s my belief the interior will last longer if it’s not heated daily to well in excess of 100F.

Anyway if you look at the speed chart it shows watt hour per mile consumption, at the speeds the car spends the majority of its time at it consumers 210 WH per mile.

But I think the average for the year is 219 WH per mile

We pay 17 cents per KWH at home, if my math is correct and it may not be but that means to drive the car fuel wise at the speed it’s mostly driven at cost 3.6C per mile.

Its going to be slightly higher at the overall average of 219 WH per mile but I didn’t calculate that, it’s a number I found on another chart.

Lets take that 40 MPG car, although no gas car with the capabilities of a Model 3 exists that can get 40 MPG, let’s run those numbers anyway.

Current price for gas here at Sam’s Club is about $3 a gl I think and it’s an easy number to use. So 300 divided by 40 is 7.5. I think that means it cost 7.5C per mike to fuel a 40 MPG car or roughly twice what it costs to fuel a Model 3.

If we use the US average of 25.7 MPG then that’s 10.9 c per mile. Over three times what it cost to “fuel” the model 3.

This doesn’t take oil and filter changes into account either.

So I ask, where does this “it costs more to drive an EV come from”? Are the GM and Ford vehicles really that inefficient? Hard to believe they could be that bad. I only have valid numbers for our car.

But bottom line, it cost us a lot less monthly to drive our Tesla, enough so that honestly I can fuel the Mooney for free or almost depending of course on how much I fly, I fly weekly, but not usually very far.