Panel and Avionics Upgrade is Scheduled

[Pinecone]

Over the last nearly a year, I have asked a lot of questions and done a lot of research.  And flying my plane to determine what I liked and didn't like.  And have almost (probably won't be until the work scheduled is done ).  And thanks to all that gave their advice/opinions.

Current panel:

Aspen 1000 Pro (not MAX)
Garmin G-5

GTN-650Xi

GTX-345

King KAP-150 autopilot with KAS-287B altitude preselect

King nav/com and audio panel

 

I seriously considered upgrading to Aspen 200 PRO MAX, and the price was very reasonable, but still an 8 month wait for shop time.  So the funds are accumulating, so I went all in.  The plans are:
 

10" G3X Touch with EIS

GTN750Xi

GTN-650Xi (keeping the current one as #2 as the price differential of trading it in and putting in a 355 or 255 wasn't that much)

GTX-345R (for panel space and more weight back)

GFC-500 autopilot with Yaw Damper.

PS Engineering 450B Audio Panel

GDL-52R for XM weather and music

WX500 Storm Scope (remote box feeds G3X and 750 for display)

Cies Fuel Senders

AirGizmo dock for AERA 760 on right side

And if the budget can be stretched, an Alpha Eagle AOA indicator

And a few little things like USB outlets, LEMO headset plugs.  Also have the yoke eyeballs replaced while the panel is out.  And may change switches to toggle switches.

 

The work will be done by Smart Avionics at N71, Donegal Springs.  They are close enough that I can visit every week, even if I have to drive there.  Once the work starts, I will chronicle it with photos and updates.  Trying to work out some interior work at the same time.  There is a shop on the field.

And don't ask how much.  I don't want to cry every time I look at this thread.

 

[hubcap]

You are going to LOVE it….but you are going to hate not having a plane for a while. I really like the G3x and the VNAV on the GFC 500 is  amazing technology to be available and affordable to GA.

[Rick Junkin]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

And if the budget can be stretched, an Alpha Eagle AOA indicator

Have you considered installing the Garmin GAP 26 AOA probe and displaying AOA on the G3X? It was a fairly recent addition to the STC and more affordable than the Alpha Eagle setup. If you want the heads up display you can add a GI 260 for about $300. I like the Alpha Eagle indicator better as it's familiar (looks very much like the old F-4 AOA indicator) but the easy integration of the Garmin with audio appealed to me.

Cheers,
Rick

[Pinecone]

Thanks. I will look into it.  But part of my reason for the Alpha Eagle is exactly what you say, the display is closest to the T-28/A-10 that I flew.

[Marc_B]

7 hours ago, Pinecone said:

GDL-52R for XM weather and music

I used the GDL 69a SXM for music and XM wx (G500/GTN/Aera) using FS510 to send to Aera.

I see you can use GDL 52R with G3X. But does the G3x share this with the GTNs? Or are you just going to only have XM weather on the G3X and Aera? For me with the 69a SXM I have XM weather capability on all displays.

7 hours ago, Pinecone said:

AirGizmo dock for AERA 760 on right side

also curious as to right side dock vs just having yoke mount? I understand having a mini cockpit on the right side but you’ll actually use the Aera on the left yoke as opposed to being a space occupying screen on the right. 
I use my Aera for charts, waypoint info and use if for traffic when I’m around the airport all the time! 
 

marc. 

[RoundTwo]

Sounds like it will be a great panel. As an alternative to the Air Gizmo dock, MyGoFlight makes a panel mount and adaptor to connects to the Garmin cradle. That gives you options for orientation and allows co-pilot their own panel if desired.

[ArtVandelay]

The G3X doesn’t share the 52R data to the GTN, you might be able to wire the 52R directly but in my case I ran out of RS232 ports. So I have ADSB data on G3X, Aera 660, and my iDevice which is more than enough.

[rbp]

10 hours ago, Pinecone said:

GTX-345R (for panel space and more weight back)

 

PS Engineering 450B Audio Panel

If you’re going with the remote transponder, you might as well go with the remote audio panel too. I know there are some people on here who prefer the PS, but I have the Garmin audio and it works just great.  
I have the audio playback button as one of the soft keys on my gtn750, and it’s super handy when I miss a call

[Aerodon]

12 hours ago, Pinecone said:

The work will be done by Smart Avionics at N71, Donegal Springs.  They are close enough that I can visit every week, even if I have to drive there.  Once the work starts, I will chronicle it with photos and updates.  Trying to work out some interior work at the same time.  There is a shop on the field.

 

 

OK, are they smart enough to build the whole stack on the bench and then have you deliver the plane when ready to install?  I know a lot of avionics shops resist this idea, but I have seen shops on the west coast that do this, and it achieves a number of time consuming tasks:

1) waiting for all parts to arrive

2) all the pre planning, drawings, thinking and wiring required.  

3) making sure that they are ready before you start the downtime.

4) making sure there isn't some other higher priority or lagging job in the hangar.

One of the advantages of going 'all in' on mostly new avionics, is that there are almost no interfaces left to deal with in the plane.  The M20K already has a nice CPC connector for all avionics power and it's not hard to install a good grounding block.  Its not hard to measure the lengths of pigtails tot he various locations (I already have a spreadsheet).

It can be done, I know of one shop that schedules 2 weeks downtime for an install like this.  Another shop that can ship entire panels ready to drop in place.

Aerodon

 

 

[Pinecone]

I will look into the GDL-69 versus the 52.

I use an iPad Mini running Foreflight on the left yoke.  By putting the AERA in a dock, it can be used with the internal AHARS as a back up PFD.

I like a real audio panel.

The Air Gizmo dock uses the Garmin cradle for connections, just recesses the AERA into the panel.

Interesting concept, but they can't build the stack, as the GTN-650Xi is installed in the airplane.

 

[Pinecone]

[ArtVandelay]

Why do you have an ammeter? And that’s a lot of toggle switches?

[Pinecone]

I just put a bunch on for place holders.  But there are 2x Alternator Switches (dual alts), Low and High Boost pump switches.  Landing and taxi light, Recognition lights, nav lights, strobe lights, beacon.   Probably dual avionics buss switches.  Prop heat.  Currently switches for Electric Trim and the Aspen, that will go away.

So at least 13.  And I want to group them logically, like all the lights in the same area, with those you turn on and off (landing and strobes) most accessible.

The software I used does not have the load meter that is currently installed, so I stuck in the ammeter as a place holder.  My current gauge shows load on each alternator and total load, with a push button to read volts.  But volts also read on the current JPI 830 and will be on the Garmin EIS

[Rick Junkin]

14 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Looks like a very efficient and effective use of available panel space. Well done.

Cheers,
Rick

[Marc_B]

@Pinecone I see you have pilot USB outlet...but you might consider a dual USB-c Garmin GSB 15 on the copilot side...inexpensive and great addition to your pax flight enjoyment as well as when I'm solo and have an iPad in the passenger seat.

I have the Garmin remote audio panel with Telligence and really have enjoyed it.  If you did decide to go remote audio panel you could move the GMC507 control head for the AP to the radio stack.  Most of my switches that I have in the location you have your GMC in (well, at least the left half of AP control head) are kinda blocked visually with the right horn of the yoke.  I have push buttons on pilot yoke for playback, Push-to-Command (Telligence), ident, and a comm swap to quickly change from comm1 to comm2.

[Marc_B]

On 6/7/2023 at 6:52 PM, Pinecone said:

I use an iPad Mini running Foreflight on the left yoke.

Also really mock up where your iPad is located with respect to the left lower buttons and knob on the G3X.  With my legacy G500 the left knob and left buttons were right in the area behind the yoke and it was a PITA to reach over and behind the Garmin Aera 796 that I had on the yoke.  When I changed to the G500TXi it put the left button to the left of the yoke and the right to the right and both are WAY easier to use.

[Schllc]

 

3 hours ago, Marc_B said:

Also really mock up where your iPad is located with respect to the left lower buttons and knob on the G3X.  With my legacy G500 the left knob and left buttons were right in the area behind the yoke and it was a PITA to reach over and behind the Garmin Aera 796 that I had on the yoke.  When I changed to the G500TXi it put the left button to the left of the yoke and the right to the right and both are WAY easier to use.

Would you even need an iPad with that panel?

I don’t use one at all with my g1000 and these modern units are supposed to have even more functionality?

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, Marc_B said:

@Pinecone I see you have pilot USB outlet...but you might consider a dual USB-c Garmin GSB 15 on the copilot side...inexpensive and great addition to your pax flight enjoyment as well as when I'm solo and have an iPad in the passenger seat.

 

That is in the plan, just not on this concept.  I will keep the Mid Continent clock with 2x USB-A and put a dual USB-C on both pilot and copilot side.

I will check on the blocking of the autopilot.  But I have seen pictures of several Mooney panels with it mounted in that area, and no one mentioned any issues.  I think there is a space just to the left of the stack that is not blocked by the yoke.  But that is why I moved the switches up, I can't see them.

I just prefer an audio panel with buttons.

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, Marc_B said:

Also really mock up where your iPad is located with respect to the left lower buttons and knob on the G3X.  With my legacy G500 the left knob and left buttons were right in the area behind the yoke and it was a PITA to reach over and behind the Garmin Aera 796 that I had on the yoke.  When I changed to the G500TXi it put the left button to the left of the yoke and the right to the right and both are WAY easier to use.

I have my iPad Mini mounted quite low, so it doesn't block anything.  I will take a pic later.

[Pinecone]

3 hours ago, Schllc said:

Would you even need an iPad with that panel?

I don’t use one at all with my g1000 and these modern units are supposed to have even more functionality?

I fly some G1000 C-283 for CAP.  And still use my iPad (full size in the 182).

And being a CAP pilot, I get the Fore Flight Military package, with all the bells and whistles for free.

But yes, a bit of over kill.  The G3X has a GPS, both GTNs have GPSs.  The 760 has one also.  And I think the GTX-345 has another one.

 

[Pinecone]

Just in general, THANK YOU for the input.

I will double check some of these things.  And it also helps to explain why I thought about doing things that way I did.

And now is good, plenty of time to make changes.

[Sue Bon]

 

On 6/14/2023 at 3:02 PM, Marc_B said:

@Pinecone I see you have pilot USB outlet...but you might consider a dual USB-c Garmin GSB 15 on the copilot side...inexpensive and great addition to your pax flight enjoyment as well as when I'm solo and have an iPad in the passenger seat.

I was going to say this too. I was reluctant when my avionics guy recommended it, but one month after getting my plane back from my panel upgrade, I dropped my iPhone in the lake and the new iPhones are USB-c. Mine is in the middle, above the throttle, which I like. Others have said the cords get in the way, but I'm ok with it.

[Pinecone]

My plane currently has a Mid Continent clock with 2x USB-A outlets on the left.  I use them to power the Mountain High O2D2 and my iPad Mini 6 (there are USB-A to USB-C cords, they just don't charge at as high a rate as true USB-C). 

On the left, I have a USB adapter plugged into the cigarette lighter for the copilot.