Any new on GFC500 SB ?

[201Mooniac]

15 hours ago, Evan said:

Did you register everything in your Garmin profile? 

Yes, all of my equipment is registered in fly.garmin.  I used to get the emails but I haven't gotten one in a couple of years now.

[Fly Boomer]

15 hours ago, jamesm said:

If I had drawings I could at least do a continuity check or have a look of work that need to be performed.

Pretty sure it's a franchise thing -- bad idea to undercut your franchisees/distributors.

[jamesm]

10 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Pretty sure it's a franchise thing -- bad idea to undercut your franchisees/distributors.

It a little different in the avionics world that I have been in. I am not trying undercut anyone. Besides the person who installed my ads-b screwed it up. I had clean up after them. I would agree that the autopilot are flight critical since dealing with flight controls. But getting a schematic come on. Besides it better getting directly from a trusted source then some bootleg copy off the internet.

[201Mooniac]

4 minutes ago, jamesm said:

But getting a schematic come on. Besides it better getting directly from a trusted source then some bootleg copy off the internet.

I'm probably missing something but what is it you want a schematic of?  The wiring is CANBus so it is wired to a standard.  The routing/ordering between devices on the bus is based on installation, not required by Garmin.  Also, there is no wiring changes as part of this SB, it is a software update. 

[rbp]

there is a right-to-repair movement afoot because many tech companies have actively worked to limit the ability of independent repair shops and consumers to repair their devices through withholding information, parts, and intellectual property rights

I wonder how this will affect the aviation industry! 

https://www.repair.org/policy

Equal Access

INDEPENDENTS NEED ACCESS TO THE SAME DIAGNOSTICS, INFORMATION, AND PARTS AVAILABLE TO THE DEALER'S FACILITIES.

Information:

Manuals: Make publicly accessible standardized service manuals in an electronic format.

Schematics and circuit diagrams: Make semiconductor diagrams and data sheets publicly accessible.

Software updates: Allow owners and independent service providers access to machine code and firmware patches and fixes. 

Licenses: Make all contracts clearly identify which elements of the machine are not included in the sale. Do not allow companies to create contract language (End User License Agreements) that modify or limit support options in the future.

Parts + Tools: Make service parts and tools available at non-discriminatory pricing to equipment owners and third parties.

Patents: Encourage patent licenses to produce repair parts and tools available under fair licensing terms.

Diagnostics: Make troubleshooting and diagnostic tools, codes, and service software available.

Unlocking: Legalize unlocking, adapting, and modifying any part of the machine, including software.

Design: Integrate Design for Repair principles into eco-design product design practices.

[jamesm]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:12 AM, 201Mooniac said:

Also, there is no wiring changes as part of this SB, it is a software update. 

 This is the part that I did not know. Somewhere I thought that I had read that was a wiring change. Thanks for clearing that up.

[kortopates]

there is a right-to-repair movement afoot because many tech companies have actively worked to limit the ability of independent repair shops and consumers to repair their devices through withholding information, parts, and intellectual property rights
I wonder how this will affect the aviation industry! 

It won’t, especially in aviation. There is zero market pressure to do so.
Aspen was actually the first to market with a retrofit glass panel replacement and promised an open architecture environment - so that they could play with others. Where did that get them? Their market share has been mostly swallowed by Garmin because they simply make the best products that integrate well with their other offerings. Their biggest complaint isn’t that a dealer must install/service them but that their end of life comes sooner than most care for. But that’s the reality of electronics and digital technology.


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[rbp]

9 minutes ago, kortopates said:

 

It won’t, especially in aviation. There is zero market pressure to do so.
Aspen was actually the first to market with a retrofit glass panel replacement and promised an open architecture environment - so that they could play with others. Where did that get them? Their market share has been mostly swallowed by Garmin because they simply make the best products that integrate well with their other offerings. Their biggest complaint isn’t that a dealer must install/service them but that their end of life comes sooner than most care for. But that’s the reality of electronics and digital technology.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

its legislated in a number of states, including NY, so manufacturers may not have an option. I'm curious if someone in NY will file a complaint against, for example, Garmin

The Digital Fair Repair Act (S4104-A/A7006-B) requires original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) to make diagnostic and repair information for digital electronic parts and equipment available to independent repair providers and consumers if such parts and repair information are also available to OEM authorized repair providers and servicers

 

unfortunately, its only for digital electronic parts, and wouldn't cover things like airframe engineering drawings 

[PT20J]

Well the really annoying part is that a lot of details that can affect your equipment choices and installation options are only described in the installation documents which, even though you paid for the equipment, Garmin forbids you to have. 

And to rub salt in the wound, the G3X certified Pilot’s Guide - which was poorly edited from the experimental version - still has numerous references to “refer to the installation manual for more information.”

Even though the Garmin dealer agreement prohibits dealers providing the installation manuals, there is nothing that prohibits allowing you to read them in their shop and make notes.

Skip

[Rick Junkin]

I got a copy of the G3X Touch installation manual from, I believe, the Garmin site. I'll see if I can find it again and post the link. I'd post the document here but the copyright statement explicitly prohibits that:

 

"© 2022

Garmin Ltd. or its subsidiaries

All Rights Reserved

Except as expressly provided herein, no part of this manual may be reproduced, copied, transmitted,

disseminated, downloaded or stored in any storage medium, for any purpose without the express prior

written consent of Garmin. Garmin hereby grants permission to download a single copy of this manual and

of any revision to this manual onto a hard drive or other electronic storage medium to be viewed and to print

one copy of this manual or of any revision hereto, provided that such electronic or printed copy of this

manual or revision must contain the complete text of this copyright notice and provided further that any

unauthorized commercial distribution of this manual or any revision hereto is strictly prohibited.

Garmin International, Inc.

1200 E. 151st Street

Olathe, KS 66062 USA

Garmin (Europe) Ltd.

Liberty House, Hounsdown Business Park

Southampton, Hampshire SO40 9LR U.K.

Garmin aviation product support information can be found at flyGarmin.com® or contacted by email at g3xpert@garmin.com."

 

Cheers,
Junkman

[kortopates]

3 hours ago, rbp said:

its legislated in a number of states, including NY, so manufacturers may not have an option. I'm curious if someone in NY will file a complaint against, for example, Garmin

The Digital Fair Repair Act (S4104-A/A7006-B) requires original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) to make diagnostic and repair information for digital electronic parts and equipment available to independent repair providers and consumers if such parts and repair information are also available to OEM authorized repair providers and servicers

 

unfortunately, its only for digital electronic parts, and wouldn't cover things like airframe engineering drawings 

That make more sense, chips and the like and often considered standard parts many of which are provided by multiple vendors. Plus a chip consumer needs a drawing and documentation to utilize the chip properly in a circuit.

Of course Garmin isn't a producer of electronic parts but a consumer as is every avionics manufacturer.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Rick Junkin said:

I got a copy of the G3X Touch installation manual from, I believe, the Garmin site. I'll see if I can find it again and post the link. I'd post the document here but the copyright statement explicitly prohibits that:

 

"© 2022

Garmin Ltd. or its subsidiaries

All Rights Reserved

Except as expressly provided herein, no part of this manual may be reproduced, copied, transmitted,

disseminated, downloaded or stored in any storage medium, for any purpose without the express prior

written consent of Garmin. Garmin hereby grants permission to download a single copy of this manual and

of any revision to this manual onto a hard drive or other electronic storage medium to be viewed and to print

one copy of this manual or of any revision hereto, provided that such electronic or printed copy of this

manual or revision must contain the complete text of this copyright notice and provided further that any

unauthorized commercial distribution of this manual or any revision hereto is strictly prohibited.

Garmin International, Inc.

1200 E. 151st Street

Olathe, KS 66062 USA

Garmin (Europe) Ltd.

Liberty House, Hounsdown Business Park

Southampton, Hampshire SO40 9LR U.K.

Garmin aviation product support information can be found at flyGarmin.com® or contacted by email at g3xpert@garmin.com."

 

Cheers,
Junkman

That’s for the experimental version which is similar, but there are differences in the forbidden certified version.

[PT20J]

6 hours ago, 201Mooniac said:

Yes, all of my equipment is registered in fly.garmin.  I used to get the emails but I haven't gotten one in a couple of years now.

I just got this figured out with Garmin. They switched to a new warranty system a while back and my email address didn’t get transferred. I did verify that all my warranty information is entered.

So, it is likely that your email address got dropped also. You might try contacting aviation.registration@garmin.com. 

One thing I have learned is that a lot of Garmin’s internal systems are not highly automated and humans make mistakes from time to time. 

Skip

[201Mooniac]

4 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I just got this figured out with Garmin. They switched to a new warranty system a while back and my email address didn’t get transferred. I did verify that all my warranty information is entered.

So, it is likely that your email address got dropped also. You might try contacting aviation.registration@garmin.com. 

One thing I have learned is that a lot of Garmin’s internal systems are not highly automated and humans make mistakes from time to time. 

Skip

Skip,  Thanks, I'll send off an email to them now, I appreciate you digging in and figuring this out.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, 201Mooniac said:

Skip,  Thanks, I'll send off an email to them now, I appreciate you digging in and figuring this out.

Trek suggested warranty@garmin.com.

Skip

[WaynePierce]

It doesn't mention the GI 275 but this website: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/2023-01-16/garmin-resolves-gfc-500-runaway-trim-issue

Says this:

The FAA has approved Garmin’s software update and service bulletin to fix the “potential runaway pitch trim issue” that has affected some GFC 500 autopilots. The situation applies to aircraft that are equipped with the GFC 500 and optional pitch trim.

Garmin explained that the software update for the GFC 500 with G5 instruments and G3X Touch displays “allows pitch trim to be enabled as a closing action to Service Alert 22109 and STC Service Bulletin 22110." The Olathe, Kansas, avionics manufacturer expects to release software to cover GI 275 instrument installations “in the coming weeks.”

A Garmin aviation service document notification tells owners that the software update must be accomplished in the next six months or at the next service interval, whichever comes first. The warranty reimbursable period ends on June 30, 2023.

According to Garmin, affected units include “GFC 500 autopilot systems with an optional GSA 28 pitch trim installed using STC SA01866WI, master drawing list 005-01264-00, Revisions 1 through 76.” Validation of the software update from European, UK, and Brazilian aviation regulators is underway, the company said.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, WaynePierce said:

It doesn't mention the GI 275 but this website: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/2023-01-16/garmin-resolves-gfc-500-runaway-trim-issue

Says this:

The FAA has approved Garmin’s software update and service bulletin to fix the “potential runaway pitch trim issue” that has affected some GFC 500 autopilots. The situation applies to aircraft that are equipped with the GFC 500 and optional pitch trim.

Garmin explained that the software update for the GFC 500 with G5 instruments and G3X Touch displays “allows pitch trim to be enabled as a closing action to Service Alert 22109 and STC Service Bulletin 22110." The Olathe, Kansas, avionics manufacturer expects to release software to cover GI 275 instrument installations “in the coming weeks.”

A Garmin aviation service document notification tells owners that the software update must be accomplished in the next six months or at the next service interval, whichever comes first. The warranty reimbursable period ends on June 30, 2023.

According to Garmin, affected units include “GFC 500 autopilot systems with an optional GSA 28 pitch trim installed using STC SA01866WI, master drawing list 005-01264-00, Revisions 1 through 76.” Validation of the software update from European, UK, and Brazilian aviation regulators is underway, the company said.

So did it end up being just a new SW version in the G5/G3X or is it more than that?

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

So did it end up being just a new SW version in the G5/G3X or is it more than that?

Just software. Here are the changes for the G5.

[Seymour]

On 1/17/2023 at 1:49 PM, WaynePierce said:

It doesn't mention the GI 275 but this website

@PT20J  ...so a separate SW update is required for a GI 275 based installation?   ...and I can also find that on the Garmin warranty site?    Because I also did not get an email (and it's in for annual now). 

[201Mooniac]

Not Skip but yes, it is a different update for the GI 275 but AFAIK you can not find it on the Garmin site, you need to download it from the dealer site so a dealer is needed to do the install

[PT20J]

Check with your dealer. All the updates to certified equipment are supposed to be dealer installations. Most dealers charge an hour of shop time to do the updates, print out any changes to the AFMS and make the logbook entry. I usually have them update everything about once a year when it’s in the shop for something.