Lycoming "DLC" lifters

[sleeper-319]

Hey all, I've read about the revised Lycoming lifters that have the "Diamond Like Carbon" aka DLC coating. But I can't find any official Lycoming document that confirms which part nunbes have the coating. Cany anyone help? Plane is an 1987 M20J, engine is an IO-360 A3B6. (not the A3B6D)

I've tried to self help, read a bunch of threads here, and it seems like people have bought these lifters for their IO-360 engines. A Google search points to this Lycoming service bulletin SI1011N, but it doesn't mention DLC or hard coating specifically. The Lycoming website mentions "hard coating" on lifters, but doesn't specifically get me to part numbers for my engine (or maybe its user error). In any case, I'd like to know do these DLC lifters really exist? And how does one confirm proper part numbers?

Help is greatly appreciated. :-)

[A64Pilot]

They exist when you can find them, I’d call Lycoming help desk and get a part number, then start calling suppliers to find a set.

I don’t know the part number and possibly a supplier may not get it right

From Lycoming web site

Speak one-on-one with our trained technical representatives every Monday through Friday, 8am to 9pm EST on our Product Support hotline: 1-877-839-7878 or email them Technicalsupport@Lycoming.com .

[sleeper-319]

I did call Lycoming. I think the hours are 7PM EST, but nevertheless I got the "you've called outside of our hours" message. Left 'em a message. Hopefully they call. And thanks. 

 

[Q The Engineer]

I can talk to you about DLC coatings in general.  If you'd like to chat PM me. Thanks

[carusoam]

Let’s see if @jetdriven is around….

We had a discussion a while back….

Roller tappets vs. DLC tappets…

Byron has a shop, and should be able to give decent insight on parts availability….

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Let’s also invite @M20Doc….  DLC coated lifter question… part number?

Best regards,

-a-

[sleeper-319]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

Let’s see if @jetdriven is around….

We had a discussion a while back….

Roller tappets vs. DLC tappets…

Byron has a shop, and should be able to give decent insight on parts availability….

Best regards,

-a-

It's my understanding (from the linked service bulletin) that roller tappets require a different case. It sounds like it is (or was) standard for Lycoming to replace engines sent in for reman with roller tappets, but otherwise, it seems like it's not a common field upgrade.  

 

 

[sleeper-319]

Update: after some hold time, I did get through to Lycoming product support. They say all new "Genuine Lycoming" lifters have this coating.

Their best recommendation to prevent lifter spalling is the roller tappet upgrade (does indeed require a new case, and is done when you send in for a Lycoming Factory reman. 2nd best option is lifters with the DLC, and any new genuine Lycoming lifters you can buy via distributor will have this. 

 

[Ragsf15e]

22 minutes ago, sleeper-319 said:

Update: after some hold time, I did get through to Lycoming product support. They say all new "Genuine Lycoming" lifters have this coating.

Their best recommendation to prevent lifter spalling is the roller tappet upgrade (does indeed require a new case, and is done when you send in for a Lycoming Factory reman. 2nd best option is lifters with the DLC, and any new genuine Lycoming lifters you can buy via distributor will have this. 

 

Excellent info, thanks.

[jetdriven]

Oddly enough I have a Lycoming IO360 roller case in my shop ready to go to somebody who wants it

[tony]

the last overhaul I had done, the shop replaced the cam and lifters with DTC parts from Lycoming.  The shop told me this is Lycoming solution to galled cams and that Lycoming guarantee's them.   I just smiled and said, we'll see.......

 

 

[jetdriven]

I had a real good phone conversation with Ken over at Lycon three years ago, and he has had several airplanes come back from a full 2000 hours and the lifters still look new. Now they’ve been out for a few years now but I have not seen a set of spalled DLC lifters yet. This is really good news

[PT20J]

The roller lifters also require a different cam with a different ramp profile. This causes the MAP to be a little higher at idle. Lycoming couldn't get the turbocharged engines to meet rated power with that profile and I learned in the factory class that they use the DLC lifters in turbos. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, sleeper-319 said:

Update: after some hold time, I did get through to Lycoming product support. They say all new "Genuine Lycoming" lifters have this coating.

Their best recommendation to prevent lifter spalling is the roller tappet upgrade (does indeed require a new case, and is done when you send in for a Lycoming Factory reman. 2nd best option is lifters with the DLC, and any new genuine Lycoming lifters you can buy via distributor will have this. 

 

I needed 16 of them for my engine earlier this year, none could be found at the time.  Lycoming seems to keep most of them for themselves.

[Ragsf15e]

55 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I needed 16 of them for my engine earlier this year, none could be found at the time.  Lycoming seems to keep most of them for themselves.

Well sheesh Clarence! No wonder there’s a parts shortage!  Your engine needs all the parts!

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Well sheesh Clarence! No wonder there’s a parts shortage!  Your engine needs all the parts!

Yes it’s like rebuilding 2 IO-360’s, except for the camshaft which was about $9K USD.  The rest of the parts were normal.

[sleeper-319]

6 hours ago, PT20J said:

The roller lifters also require a different cam with a different ramp profile. This causes the MAP to be a little higher at idle. Lycoming couldn't get the turbocharged engines to meet rated power with that profile and I learned in the factory class that they use the DLC lifters in turbos. 

I didn’t see that referenced anywhere, but it makes sense. Thanks for sharing. 

 

5 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I needed 16 of them for my engine earlier this year, none could be found at the time.  Lycoming seems to keep most of them for themselves.

I’m gonna just keep my head in the sand and pretend they’re already on their way to me. You know, like the day you buy a powerball ticket and you’re thinking bout how you’re gonna spend the millions. That’s where I am right now. Full denial. 

 

4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

except for the camshaft which was about $9K USD.

Yes. Extra full denial. 

 

[A64Pilot]

So how do you tell visually? Are they black or something? Thinking how do you know you didn’t get NOS parts that aren’t DLC

[tony]

21 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

So how do you tell visually? Are they black or something? Thinking how do you know you didn’t get NOS parts that aren’t DLC

yes, they are black.

[A64Pilot]

9 hours ago, tony said:

yes, they are black.

Thanks, I thought so, but never having actually seen one, wasn’t sure

[jetdriven]

On 12/1/2022 at 2:04 AM, carusoam said:

Let’s see if @jetdriven is around….

We had a discussion a while back….

Roller tappets vs. DLC tappets…

Byron has a shop, and should be able to give decent insight on parts availability….

Best regards,

-a-

We found one shop that had the DLC Lycoming lifters.  We got the prop strike teardown to him and they put in a new cam and these lifters.  Supposedly Lycoming Is shipping them now. Spruce showed availability a few weeks ago. They have 48 in California right now.  15B26588 is the P/N. I wouldnt put anything else in a engine build