Special Tools Needed

[bhawk19]

Can someone help me find the landing gear truss torque tools? Getting ready to help a friend do his annual and he doesn't think it has been checked for a very long time. Any suggestions? We would like to buy them, not rent or borrow if we don't have to.

Thank you,

Hank

[Sabremech]

You can find them on EBay. I bought a set over a year ago. 

[jwilkins]

I bought a set from Dan at Lasar ((800) 954-5619).

The Ebay sets are probably fine but this is such an important item I wanted to have a set from a MSC. The required low range torque wrench I did buy from Ebay and had it calibrated at a lab. Overkill maybe , but the mechanic I was working with at the time had his own shop-built tools. The torque wrenches at many shops do not have enough sensitivity at the specified torque range.

 

[Sabremech]

Do you know where the MSC got their tools? Some one had to make them for Mooney and they've certainly been copied over the years. Unless we have access to the tool drawing from Mooney, how do we know that any of our tools, including those from the MSC meet the design criteria? The ones I bought from Ebay worked just as advertised and my gear fell right in the limits of the manual. Is it 100% correct? is your Mooney that you bought the tools from an MSC correct?

 Just saying that because it came from an MSC doesn't automatically make it better.

[1964-M20E]

I bought a set of E-bay last year and they worked fine.  I found that a dial torque wrench with a maximum torque memory needle works great.  I really needed them since I changed some retraction links at the last annual. 

[bhawk19]

Thank you for all the replies...I tried EBay, but no luck. How much should I expect to pay for them?

Thanks,

Hank

[jwilkins]

Quote: Sabremech

 The ones I bought from Ebay worked just as advertised and my gear fell right in the limits of the manual. ...

 Just saying that because it came from an MSC doesn't automatically make it better.

[jetdriven]

if you see how the factory tool fits onto the brace its no big deal. it must hook around the bolt that holds the brace on, and put pressure on the over center end of the link.

[flhelo]

There is a mechanic/pilot in Marianna,Fl that has the tools. He may loan them to you(not sure) if you fly down there. His name is Walter Marques. Dont have his number handy but check with the FBO or the EMS helicopter folks. He flies for them on the side!!

[bhawk19]

Thank you for the guidance!  I'll see what he says...I would really like to buy a set to have whenever I need them, as opposed to renting or borrowing, so if anyone has a set they would like to part with please let me know.

Thanks,

Hank

[bhawk19]

Thank you for the guidance!  I'll see what he says...I would really like to buy a set to have whenever I need them, as opposed to renting or borrowing, so if anyone has a set they would like to part with please let me know.

Thanks,

Hank

[Shadrach]

I have CAD drawing of the rigging tools if anyone has a relationship with a machine shop that will make them. As soon as my machine shop found out they were AC related, they called their insurance agent who told them not to make them for me.  I should have told them they were for a John Deer...

[Sabremech]

Sorry to upset you Jwilkins. I don't have a problem with you getting your own tools and your choice to get them from an MSC. What I try to do, is help the person on this forum with resources and some of them aren't from an MSC. Contrary to some people, I don't make the assumption that because it has the MSC on their door that they are the best. I guess this isn't just a Mooney myth, but an aviation myth because I see the same thing from all the brands.

I have a set of tools that I would be willing to loan out or can have a set made from my machine shop. Just let me know.

[jwilkins]

Sabremech

I wasn't upset at all; I just wanted to clarify why I choose to buy parts with a provenance. I am a partner in a machine shop and still CHOOSE to buy parts with tracebility back to a factory approved source. It's a choice and I still cringe when I see the factory invoices. 

The factory parts may not be any better at all, and may measure exactly the same, but it's my decision to keep my tracebility as clean as possible. Just for a really out in left field low probability what-if:

Let's say I provide my shop with tools I made myself, or I even do the preload test myself. The gear collapses resulting in a prop strike and I now have a $40,000 to $50,000 invoice to present to my insurance company for new skins, prop, and engine tear down. I don't want to be holding my breath in case they subrogate to try to collect from the shop, whose insurance company tells them that I supplied the tools.   

When we make suggestions to others, (especially new plane owners who look at factory prices for the first time) to make parts or tools without tracebility there is some risk involved. I just think we should provide the rest of the story so that when we tell someone how easy and inexpensive it is to make or buy non-factory parts that they also understand that there is some small risk involved in those decisions. 

I don't like the cost of factory parts and tools, but there are at least two reasons why I buy them:

1. I want those sources to survive this economy and be around when I need them for something that is not possible for me to do myself, and

2. I don't want to do something which the FAA or an insurance company could point to as improper.

I apologize I sounded upset; I really am not. I am stating my reasons for deciding to buy the "$800 hammer". I don't like it , but make a decision to do it.

In real life I am one of the thriftiest guys you will ever meet, but made a decision to follow a tracebility process on almost all aircraft parts just as we do in our shop for FDA and UL products.

Again, I am sorry if I came across as upset or preaching. Everyone needs to make thier own decisions. I just wanted to be the lone voice in the wilderness explaining why ANYONE would be stupid enough to buy a landing light cover for $150 that I could build for $20 and a weekend pleasantly spent making a mold taken from the original and forming the plastic in an oven.  And if I did, I would probably use PC instead of Acrylic PMMA; back to my urge to make 'improvements'.

Sorry again if I was abrupt. Didn't mean to be.

Years ago there were gear and control rigging tools around that the owners would loan out to other Mooney owners. I think that is a fantastic way to get more utilization out of these expensive jigs. I'd love to borrow a set of control surface rigging boards to check my plane. 

Jim

 

 

 

 

[Sabremech]

Hi Jim,

Good to hear your reasoning and I understand. One of the business's that I operate, is manufacturing aircraft parts for Corporate aircraft. I hold a PMA and QA system. I know what it takes to make parts the same every time and we choose to have every part inspected by a DAR even though we aren't required. If I let insurance and risk run my business, I wouldn't be in the aviation business. I refuse to let that stop me and will continue to produce the parts that are needed. I recently started a new company that deals with certified aircraft parts for orphaned aircraft. There's a market for it and a huge risk. I choose to take the risk because these parts are needed. If I have the drawing and I make my part or tooling to that, I'm not concerned about the what if. I know my part or tooling is correct and can prove it to an insurance company. 

You're right in informing people why you choose the way you do. My perspective is completely different as I work in corporate aviation full time, Warbird maint part time and have two aviation business's of my own. It boggles my mind to hear someone say the Mooney is a complicated airplane and only an MSC should work on it. The Mooney is a very simple airplane to work on compared to others I maintain. An airplane is an airplane, with some just requiring more tooling and time.

Thanks for your insight. 

[jwilkins]

 

David,

1. Last year a former MSC owner told me that in today's environment it is more important to know "the guy" working on your plane than to automatically use a MSC. Sometimes "the guy" really is or is employed by a MSC, but there are some very competent Mooney mechanics at non-MSC shops. 

Repeat so there is no misunderstanding what I am saying: I believe there are very good Mooney competent mechanics at non-MSC shops and also at MSC shops. I find that the best way to deal with this is to try out a shop (MSC or not) on a series of smaller jobs, keep reading sites like Mooney Space to get educated, ask lots of questions, and pay close attention to what you see and hear at the shop. A few years ago I bought a plane that had been maintained almost exclusively at a MSC. My Mooney savvy independent mechanic found several things they had decided to overlook, including a drill bit broken off inside a broken main gear grease fitting. No one can tell me the mechanic did not know he did that. On the other hand I have heard many stories about Don Maxwell trouble shooting issues that other shops (MSC and not) could not figure out. It's "the guy" that matters; not the MSC certification. 

Take automobiles: I try to do most of the work myself. For things I can't or don't want to tackle I go to an independent local mechanic. I go to the dealer for warrantee work and when the local shop tells me that they don't have the tools (like making spare keys for my blasted VW that requires a VW specific programmer not available at locksmiths!). Most of the dealers I have used are staffed with young mechanics. Most have training but little experience. However the dealer has tools and equipment the local shops probably don't.

I think it is the same with the AP/ IA independent shops. For our older airplanes we sometimes need the experience that "the guy" has built up working on thousands of Mooneys over decades of service. SOMETIMES the only place to find these guys is at a MSC. My local shop will tell me if they haven't dealt with a particular issue before. I'll research it on this site and talk to people I know. If we have a possible solution I'll discuss it with the shop before they do anything. 

Last year when my previous F had a nose wheel shimmy Bruce Jaeger at a MAPA SF class said to check the shimmy dampener. The local shop had never before needed to shim one, but, with the information from Bruce, checked, agreed, shimmed, and fixed the issue very quickly at a reasonable cost. I did not need a MSC. I needed the expertise we can share together in person and on Mooney Space.

I sure would hate to have to go to a 'new' shop for any major work without a previous relationship unless it was Maxwell or a shop that had an unqualified recommendation from one of our Mooney experts. I also like to go to the shop regularly throughout the year rather than to build up a long squawk list for the annual. Unless some of the work can be combined to be more efficient I like to get things done as they come up. It spreads the cost out some, and allows me to get to know the fellows at the shop better and for them to get used to the airplane. If they have had an opportunity to do routine maintenance they will be a little more comfortable with both me and the plane compared to seeing it once a year. Plus if I need a favor in getting something done right away they might be more accommodating if they know me.

2. My comments about tools were in response to buying tools with unknown traceability from an unknown source on EBay. If those were YOUR tools on EBay and I knew you built them in a qualified shop using factory drawings and not reverse engineered in a garage, even I would be comfortable buying them. I might still ask for your statement that they were built in accordance to the Mooney drawings and checked for conformance, but I would be comfortable buying them as you can demonstrate competence and traceability. As you said, all this comes down to risk management. I think we need to let people new to Mooneys and new aircraft owners know that there are good reasons to support qualified shops that follow the expensive procedures which make our parts and tools so bloody expensive. It's still their decision but we need to talk about, for example, why your shop expenses and costs are higher than the local shop doing automotive maintenance.

So often we hear comments that indicate people thing prices are high because the aviation community charges too much compared to commercial and industrial. We need to let people know that the prices are higher because the COSTS are higher, and, often, it is the right decision to suck it up and pay the higher prices rather than go off-spec for parts and tools. The reasons include managing the risks involved if something goes wrong, too. You are in a fantastic position with your FAA shop to help educate people about costs involved with the processes and procedures you follow to ensure your parts are correctly manufactured and certified. I don't think many owners, me included, know much about that side of the business.

I've posted this link before, but here is an article about an owner supplied part that failed, resulting in a gear collapse and prop strike on a Cherokee 140. This guy saved a few hundred dollars having a part fabricated locally, but ended up with a gear collapse which his insurance company probably won't cover and a possible FAA violation for both him and his mechanic.

http://150cessna.tripod.com/parts.html

I'll get off the soap box and pass this baby to someone else now.

Jim

 

[Alan Fox]

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