Pre-buy inspection...absolutely necessary?

[jeckford]

I know..I know...I have read numerous threads and understand the importance of a good prebuy.

I have already paid $1000 for a prebuy and passed on the plane due to corrosion issues.

 

My Question is...is it always necessary.

My previous pre-buy was with Dugosh and they were kind enough to let me know about a "great" plane that they just annualled and would be for sale.

This is a well maintained and well equiped J model that has been annualed and maintaned solely by Dugosh for the last 20 years.  Just had an annual by them.  Plane has a new engine with great compressions.

Would you still get a pre-buy in this instance?

 

 

[74657]

I would think that pdf's of the logs would suffice in this instance.  It's already known that the people who have taken care of it are one of the best in the business.  The logs will show you all you need to know........  Sounds like you might have lucked out!

[carusoam]

It's like insurance to protect your bank account.  You spent $1000 to find out the last plane was a financial trap.  Sounds like money well spent?

Now your thinking it is better to trust somebody else to be nice to your bank account.

PPI - It is not mandatory, just a really good financial idea.  

On the next plane, that has been promised to be so good, it won't fail the inspection, and you are sure to have an independent person confirm that for you.

This is risk management.  You decide how much risk you can handle.  How much you can inspect yourself, how much you can trust the seller, how much you can afford to fix, what happens if you can't fix it.

I like the independent inspection of the plane I bought.  I feel that if something goes wrong, I did the best I could.

On a small investment, a local A&P did my PPI.  On a large investment, an MSC performed my PPI, which also included testing radios, nav and AP functionality.

Bottom line, decide how best to protect your piggy bank.

Best regards,

-a-

[N601RX]

I would not see the point in paying Dugosh to do a prebuy on a plane that they had been keeping up for 20 years.  If anything I would take it to Maxwell just to get a fresh set  of eyes to look at it.

[gregwatts]

An annual is about the best pre-buy you can get. If they just annualed it.......and it has only flown a few hours......I would take that chance. That said,....have a third party do Mooney specific checks just for piece of mind. Dugosh has a good rep....and with a fresh annual.....I wouldn't worry too much.

[GeorgePerry]

If the plane "just" came out annual from a reputable shop then a pre-buy might not always be nessesary especially if the seller has a stack of maintenance reciepts documenting how well the bird has been maitained.  If you have the logs, see the care the previous owner took interns of $'s spent over time and the shop will stand behind the annual, then it might be worth skipping. 

This however would certainly be the exception not the rule...And even so you might want an additional non biased A&P to check all the AD paperwork and look over the plane to check for the easy stuff (corrosion, improperly repaired damage, working order of instruments and avionics etc)

[jetdriven]

It can have a fresh annual yet need several thousand in work. Things like GPS's that can't acquire their position, bad radios, gyros that need rebuilds, rigging, etc etc.  None of those are required to be fixed at annual.  Have an independent 3rd party look at the aircraft. Logs only tell part of the story.  These boards are full of people who bought a pretty cream puf with "NDH" and "100 SMOH" only to have to rebuild the engine the first year or correct some major problems.

[carusoam]

This is one of those questions you know the answer to, just after you ask it...

 

Something like being on final approach, thinking should I go around?

You've thought it, you already know your answer....

Best regards and good luck.

-a-

[231Pilot]

Pre-buy is a must.  My plane had just had an annual, but pre-buy at Maxwell turned up some items that needed immediate attention.  A few other minor squawks also.  The owner paid for items that affected airworthiness, I paid for the minor items I would have corrected after purchase.  Maxwell is 1st class. The money was well spent.

[PTK]

Quote: jeckford

I know..I know...I have read numerous threads and understand the importance of a good prebuy.

I have already paid $1000 for a prebuy and passed on the plane due to corrosion issues.

 

My Question is...is it always necessary.

My previous pre-buy was with Dugosh and they were kind enough to let me know about a "great" plane that they just annualled and would be for sale.

This is a well maintained and well equiped J model that has been annualed and maintaned solely by Dugosh for the last 20 years.  Just had an annual by them.  Plane has a new engine with great compressions.

Would you still get a pre-buy in this instance?

 

 

[jasong]

Quote: jeckford

I know..I know...I have read numerous threads and understand the importance of a good prebuy.

I have already paid $1000 for a prebuy and passed on the plane due to corrosion issues.

 

My Question is...is it always necessary.

My previous pre-buy was with Dugosh and they were kind enough to let me know about a "great" plane that they just annualled and would be for sale.

This is a well maintained and well equiped J model that has been annualed and maintaned solely by Dugosh for the last 20 years.  Just had an annual by them.  Plane has a new engine with great compressions.

Would you still get a pre-buy in this instance?

 

 

[Ned Gravel]

Quote: carusoam

It's like insurance to protect your bank account.  You spent $1000 to find out the last plane was a financial trap.  Sounds like money well spent?

...

-a-

[skyking]

Nothing against any reputable shop such as Ron's but i would never let the current shop do the pre-buy.

Always have a fresh set of eyes look it over. So in my humble opinion always do a pre-buy.

[Parker_Woodruff]

The real advantages of a pre-buy in this case would be as follows...let's say you did it at Maxwell:

- Don will look for any immediate deal-breakers

- Don will fly the airplane and see what does and doesn't work

- If anything recent happened to the airplane, such as a hard landing, I'd want to know the damage before I owned it.

Too many "What if's" in a 70,000 - $150,000 M20J for my budget to have to worry about.  I would likely have Maxwell look at it, unless I knew the seller to begin with and trusted them and their flying.

[joenut]

I would also recommend a pre-buy.  When I bought my 20J it had "just gotten out of an annual" 3 months prior from another MSC.  I had Dugosh do the pre-buy and they found about 4k in airworthiness items that the owner had fixed.  The funniest part to me is every item they found they would have some commentary about the other shop like it was a competition.  So I'd say take it to Maxwell, and make sure to tell them in the initial call that it was Maintained by Dugosh.  They will look extra hard to find little things that "Dugosh missed."  You'll get your money's worth.

[M20F]

Personally I would do it as a pre-buy annual.  That way the guy who is confirming it is good to buy puts his name in the book and now has skin in the game.  Maxwell did mine and was very pleased with him, the results, and the final deal.

[Bill_Pyles]

Earlier this year, I bought my cosmetically pretty J from an airplane dealer who had taken the airplane in on trade.  Supposedly the dealer had a pre-buy on the plane before he took it in on trade.  However, I had the pre-buy done by Willmar and they found about $19,000 of things that were wrong with the airplane including the leaking fuel tanks.  The avionics shop found another $6,000 worth of suff.  The seller worked with me on the price, and I had every single item fixed including having Weep No More (Paul Beck) seal the tanks.  Evidently, the guy who did the pre-buy for the dealer turned a blind eye to a lot of things. 

I could have elected to not have some of the work done, but I feel a lot more confidence in the airplane since so many discrepanicies were corrected and I haven't had a hiccup in 50 hrs of flying in the last 80 days.  Maybe I am naive, but I hope to have a relatively painless annual next August.

[PilotDerek]

Has anyone ever heard of someone holding a mech responsible for their pre-buy? It seems to me that a pre-buy is as useful as a home inspection prior to purchase. I have known a lot of people that were burned by horrible home inspector's that missed big issues and were unable to hold the inspector responsible. i'm not advicating that we shouldn't do a pre-buy; however it seems that many put way too much stock in the results. I had a pre-buy because my mechanical knowledge of aircrafts was limited. I have since found issues that my pre-buy missed, luckly none that were major but one was an airworthy issue. I think the best person to do a pre-buy is either yourself or a friend who knows the aircraft. I wold ask many on this site to help me on a pre-buy if I had to do it over again. Maybe then it would only cost me a few beers vice a few hundred dollars. Seriously though I would love to know if anyone has ever held a IA accountable.

[fantom]

If your goal is to hold an IA accountable for a prebuy, expect to pay thousands, not hundreds. You could only hold someone accountable the moment the plane came out of the PPI, because who knows what is done to the plane after the PPI.

In my opinion it would be totally impractical, but the lawyers would love it.

[PilotDerek]

Quote: fantom

If your goal is to hold an IA accountable for a prebuy, expect to pay thousands, not hundreds. You could only hold someone accountable the moment the plane came out of the PPI, because who knows what is done to the plane after the PPI.

In my opinion it would be totally impractical, but the lawyers would love it.

[M20F]

Quote: PilotDerek

Has anyone ever heard of someone holding a mech responsible for their pre-buy? It seems to me that a pre-buy is as useful as a home inspection prior to purchase. .

[jetdriven]

Have any of you guys ever had anything positive happen after "reaching out the FAA"  ??  Or, to rephrase that, have they ever done anything about it?

[OR75]

before spending money on  a pre-buy

(1) get some homework going and learn as much as you can about the specific model issues. For a Mooney: fuel tank leaks, gear actuators, front gear truss, neatness of avionics wiring, etc .... . Corosion is an issue for all aircrafts, Pull the ADs from the FAA or MAC websites and try to read them. 

(2) pick a flashlight and an inspection mirror. Go with an old pair of jeans ... you are not going for a brand new Gulfstream. If this is your first plane purchase, bring someone you know and who bought an aircraft before or a pilot owner buddy or a high time pilot with you). (What beats going aircrfat shopping ?!?!?!? -  I would go !). This is probably the most important single item. We are all smarter buyers the second time. 

(3) ask the owner / broker to open at least the top cowling and battery compartment / tail cone panels  and let the plane "talk" to you.  An aircraft cannot be "staged" like a house !!!.  Look at what it is like under the dashboard 

(4) read the logs and see how thourough maintenance was done. Where was the plane maintained ? where was is stationed ?

If you don't like what you see, ask questions or walk away and save yourself a pre-buy. But keep in mind you are trying to buy a used aircraft.    

Ask for fresh annual where you pay for the inspection and the seller pays for all what needs to be fixed.

These are of course just suggestions.

 

[gregwatts]

Quote: PilotDerek

Has anyone ever heard of someone holding a mech responsible for their pre-buy? It seems to me that a pre-buy is as useful as a home inspection prior to purchase. I have known a lot of people that were burned by horrible home inspector's that missed big issues and were unable to hold the inspector responsible. i'm not advicating that we shouldn't do a pre-buy; however it seems that many put way too much stock in the results. I had a pre-buy because my mechanical knowledge of aircrafts was limited. I have since found issues that my pre-buy missed, luckly none that were major but one was an airworthy issue. I think the best person to do a pre-buy is either yourself or a friend who knows the aircraft. I wold ask many on this site to help me on a pre-buy if I had to do it over again. Maybe then it would only cost me a few beers vice a few hundred dollars. Seriously though I would love to know if anyone has ever held a IA accountable.

[M20F]

Quote: jetdriven

Have any of you guys ever had anything positive happen after "reaching out the FAA"  ??  Or, to rephrase that, have they ever done anything about it?