AeroCruze 100 Update

[cliffy]

Heard the same story 3 years ago

[Joshua Blackh4t]

I noticed spruce is showing no stock for all the TT autopilots. Seems strange.

 

[LANCECASPER]

30 minutes ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

I noticed spruce is showing no stock for all the TT autopilots. Seems strange.

 

Bendix King's new slogan, "We believe in equal availability of all of our products, even for those that have already been STC approved."

This replaces the old slogan, "We're not happy until you're not happy."

[cliffy]

There was/is a reason why their booth at Sun  n Fun last year was mostly empty while Garmin and Dynon were swamped.

[carusoam]

Back in the day…

We had Narco to poke fun at….

Today…

BK has been filling the slot of crummy customer support, and blown delivery dates…

Honeywell is ranked 77 on the Fortune 500 list (according to Alexa)…

They have a huge avionics business supporting the corporate world of aviation….

This tiny division doesn’t stand out enough to get lopped off… 

PP thoughts only, not a Master of Business Administration…

Best regards,

-a-

[cliffy]

I basically said the same thing months ago. They are nothing more than a pimple on an elephants butt by comparison. 

Although IF they had good leadership in sales and marketing they could do a whole lot better than they do now even with the budget they have from coporate.

There was much talk about once again claiming their heritage in GA markets with their reshuffle years ago AND much speculation on them falling on their face, But alas the postulation came true. Face Plant!

I tried twice to open communication with their President and Head of Sales and got no answer at all. No response, no "thank you for asking" absolutely nothing in response. Their mantra of "listening to their customers" must have been written by someone other than an employee because they can't even acknowledge commination's. They all must go to a dead letter box neve to be seen by the recipient. 

Like I've said 3 times now- the money ain't in Mooney autopilots or small GA and they don't care. 

If they really wanted to certify the A/P it could/can be done with a push or two from outside the FAA (Ombudsman to say the least- I've done it and gotten a division of the FAA off of their butts and got the job done). There are ways to move recalcitrant divisions that are not doing their job IF YOU REALLY WANT THE JOB DONE! 

The money will be in drones for this division. You'll see us dropped like a hot potato as that market matures. 

They will never dramatically expand the small GA market for autopilots. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by cliffy
add

[EricJ]

I'm anticipating the FAA gets to return to their offices for the first time in a long time fairly soon, and that may start to unstick some logjams.

 

[cliffy]

Why couldn't they have gone in and worked with masks and vaccinations like everybody else in  the world?

What makes them special? Even the President goes into the White House once a week!

Everything they have to work on can be done remotely IF they wanted to do it. 

[PT20J]

Garmin seems to get their stuff through the FAA -- just sayin' 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

Why couldn't they have gone in and worked with masks and vaccinations like everybody else in  the world?

What makes them special? Even the President goes into the White House once a week!

Everything they have to work on can be done remotely IF they wanted to do it. 

That's a question for the FAA, but I did notice their leadership resigned this week.

[EricJ]

6 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Garmin seems to get their stuff through the FAA -- just sayin' 

That's probably an advantage of having self-certification status, like Boeing has had. 

[cliffy]

1 minute ago, nosky2high said:

Meanwhile, how many GA accidents could be avoided and lives saved with the incorporation of this relatively affordable autopilot that can drastically enhance safety? Our tax dollars at work.

BOY you hit it on the nose!   I've been preaching that for years. An affordable A/P that has auto level features would save countless lives.

Yet until the FAA gets their head out of the sand and stops designing all things from the top down (Part 121) and all others lower have to adapt to that thinking NOTHING will get done. 

Lame excuse. The Administrator just didn't want to go down with the sinking ship. (MAX problems, 787 problems, etc) Secretary of Transportation   issues. Who would want to bank their career on a Cabinet position that has no knowledge of the entire department he oversees? 

[NotarPilot]

23 hours ago, EricJ said:

That's probably an advantage of having self-certification status, like Boeing has had. 

Not sure the self-certification process was such a bad thing. Obviously it failed in with the Max crashes but how many times has it succeeded as a safe and efficient way to get products to market in a reasonable time frame? OEMs like Boeing still have a strong incentive to not kill their passengers due to obvious liability and (cough) moral reasons. 
 

Unfortunately, this changed the way the certification process will be as we continue to move forward and we all need to be patient (me included) until these issues get resolved. 

[cliffy]

Boeing has had whistle blower concerns about quality control for many years.

[donkaye, MCFI]

So I just viewed the video on the AeroCruz 100 and 230.  I have recently flown extensively with the AeroCruz 100 in a Piper Arrow IV with a student working on an instrument rating.  The AeroCruz 100  is not certified for approaches.  It doesn't have a pitch trim servo, so won't hold altitude well.  It does a good job with GPSS.  Including installation it probably cost nearly $10,000.  The AeroCruz 230 was projected in the video to cost around $15,000 installed.

Friends, in the overall cost of aircraft ownership, the availability of product, magnitude of functionality, new modern light brushless servos, cost difference of approximately $5,000, reliability, and customer support, I personally think it is a no brainer to go with the GFC 500.  With the recent magnitude of inflation, likely to continue to increase in the foreseeable future, the sooner you commit to the purchase and schedule installation, the happier you will be.  In fact, by the time the AeroCruz 230 would be available for the Mooney, inflation would eat up the current price difference.  How long have people been waiting for it?

[cliffy]

Don 

Take a Mooney C with no autopilot and basic IFR with even an early GPS (say a 155 TSO)

Now list out everything I would need to make the G500 work in that airplane and price it out.

Don't think its going to happen for 15K   Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so. 

[Lionudakis]

A customer of mine just had 2 G5's and a GFC500 with trim installed, no panel work, just equipment installed for 21K

[LANCECASPER]

9 hours ago, donkaye said:

 In fact, by the time the AeroCruz 230 would be available for the Mooney, inflation would eat up the current price difference.  How long have people been waiting for it?

Not that I'm suggesting that it's a good idea, but the Aerocruze 230 has been available for Mooneys since 2019. It's the Aerocruze 100 (TruTrak) that everyone has been waiting for. (On the Aerocruze 230 it's a domino effect though. Working with Sandia, they tried to get the Ki-300 attitude indicator certified - that took years and it was still necessary to have a box it between, the Ki-310. Since then the Ki-300 has  been determined to be not reliable so that's off the table. It's still legal to install the Aerocruze 230 with the Ki256 attitude, but then you have to leave the vacuum in. So yes, it would be better to start with a clean sheet and do the GFC500. How many Aerocruze 230s have been installed in Mooneys? Maybe a handful.

Here's one from a couple years ago:

[LANCECASPER]

3 minutes ago, nosky2high said:

The Aerocruze 230 is not available for vintage Mooney owners. Mooney M20K, M20J, M20L, M20M, M20R, M20S Only. Not an option for those of us complaining about the FAA and BKs incompetence.

It’s available for any Mooney that had a KFC150 or KFC200 previously installed. That’s its’ purpose is to replace the autopilot computer with a a new more capable one.

https://www.bendixking.com/en/products/ai/autopilots-and-indicators/aerocruze-230

 

[Lionudakis]

BK has their own level of incompetence I’m sure,  Combined with the FAA‘s industry-leading level of incompetence and inability to get anything productive done. Dynon and BK are both up against the FAA. I’m not sure what goes on behind closed doors at BK, but the FAA is just making it damn near impossible for Dynon to do anything. I think unless you’re willing to give Garmin all your money, we are up against a corrupt system. 

[EricJ]

A friend put the TruTrak/AeroCruze 100 in his Cherokee a while back and LOVES it.   I'm one of the folks with it in my cart at aircraftspruce.

I have a panel that will drive a GFC500, but needlessly putting a bunch of pulleys and control cables in a pushrod airplane just seems wrong to me.   Plus, as an A&P I can install the AeroCruze myself but Garmin will not allow me to install a GFC500, it has to be done by a Garmin authorized facility.   The cost difference is not a show-stopper for me, but it is very significant and tilts the scales even further in the direction of the AeroCruze.

My buddy installed his AeroCruze in his Cherokee himself supervised by his IA.   It didn't take him very long and he said it was surprisingly easy to do on his airplane.

The GFC500 does appear to be a superior autopilot on several fronts, but not superior enough to make it a slam dunk given many other considerations.

I agree that the FAA is dropping the ball here, again, still, whatever... 

[Lionudakis]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

A friend put the TruTrak/AeroCruze 100 in his Cherokee a while back and LOVES it.   I'm one of the folks with it in my cart at aircraftspruce.

I have a panel that will drive a GFC500, but needlessly putting a bunch of pulleys and control cables in a pushrod airplane just seems wrong to me.   Plus, as an A&P I can install the AeroCruze myself but Garmin will not allow me to install a GFC500, it has to be done by a Garmin authorized facility.   The cost difference is not a show-stopper for me, but it is very significant and tilts the scales even further in the direction of the AeroCruze.

My buddy installed his AeroCruze in his Cherokee himself supervised by his IA.   It didn't take him very long and he said it was surprisingly easy to do on his airplane.

The GFC500 does appear to be a superior autopilot on several fronts, but not superior enough to make it a slam dunk given many other considerations.

I agree that the FAA is dropping the ball here, again, still, whatever... 

I just installed an Aerocruze100 in a 172, and was quite surprised at the attention to detail in the install instructions, packaging, AND the call to tech support that was answered in minutes, and conferenced in with 2 guys. I'd entertain a GFC500, if I could install it myself as an A&P also.

[Joshua Blackh4t]

I just emailed TT about the STC and availability in Australia and got a very quick response that sounds very enthusiastic.

They told me not to buy from spruce because they have dealers here who will be cheaper.

"The FAA are in the final piece"

Maybe in time for a Christmas present

 

 

[Niko182]

@mooniac58 needs to create a "jokes" category for this thread and this autopilot.

[carusoam]

1 hour ago, nosky2high said:

Who is TT?

Total Time

Transition Training

TruTrak

The list of TTs I’m familiar with…

But, if you forgot who TT is… that would be understandable….

 

+1 For self certification…FDA compliant companies have been doing this for decades…

When companies lack the experience for doing a proper self certification… they hire FDA compliant organizations to supply the necessary guidance…

Big G figured this out years ago…

Boeing has made a mockery out of it… best defense they could come up with for crashing two new, fully loaded, planes… (kind of a tragic sales engineering story)

The key words are Qualification and Validation… there is a real science behind designing, and building, and operating important devices….
 

It isn’t just shoot from the hip, using your most experienced gun…

Best regards,

-a-