Ovation performance at high altitude airports versus turbocharged mooney; at a home airport....with post title change to avoid "odd" confusion.

[jsigmon]

Previous Ovation owner and flew routinely into Santa FE and Taso, NM. Now based in Colorado and home airport 7,400 MSL.

Anyone have thoughts on routine operations from a home field at high elevation airport in Ovation? Im in the market for another Ovation or Bravo. 

Is it going to be worth the added fuel and maintenance and outrageous Overhaul costs in the case of bad luck with making TBO for a big bore turbocharged lycoming?

My flights never involve more than one passenger. 

[FoxMike]

I have lived in Denver for 50 years or so and have always owned an airplane.  I have found a turbo to be worth the expense.  If you are operating from SBS the runway is long enough for the Ovation but there is no extra.  You might find someone on the field with a turbo Mooney who would give you a ride.  Many years ago I owned a Baron  which I flew up there on business on a warm summer day.  I found the takeoff roll to be exceedingly long and soon sold the Baron and bought a T210.  Turbos do not cost a lot more if properly operated.  The Bravo is a costly airplane to operate but you might consider a M20K as an alternate. 

[philiplane]

A turbocharged Lycoming will last longer and be more reliable than a turbo Continental. It has none of the cylinder issues (short service life, faulty rotocoils, weak valve guides, etc), there is no starter adapter to fail, and the turbo control system is the best one ever developed.

[jsigmon]

15 minutes ago, FoxMike said:

I have lived in Denver for 50 years or so and have always owned an airplane.  I have found a turbo to be worth the expense.  If you are operating from SBS the runway is long enough for the Ovation but there is no extra.  You might find someone on the field with a turbo Mooney who would give you a ride.  Many years ago I owned a Baron  which I flew up there on business on a warm summer day.  I found the takeoff roll to be exceedingly long and soon sold the Baron and bought a T210.  Turbos do not cost a lot more if properly operated.  The Bravo is a costly airplane to operate but you might consider a M20K as an alternate. 

Thank you. That's what I figured. In and out of Taos was never impressive in my ovation, but not alot of terrain issues getting in and out of the area. Ill operate out of 20V and SBS so your report is what I figured was the case. I shall press on in my search.

 

Cheers

[jsigmon]

Just now, philiplane said:

A turbocharged Lycoming will last longer and be more reliable than a turbo Continental. It has none of the cylinder issues (short service life, faulty rotocoils, weak valve guides, etc), there is no starter adapter to fail, and the turbo control system is the best one ever developed.

Yes! That confirms everything I've understood and why once taking the plunge on turbo i'm heavily leaning to just going all in on the big bore lycoming. It appears that unless I just get an abused engine or bad luck, Ill just have to prepare to stay on top of exhaust and accessories for that engine

[jlunseth]

I have a TSIO360LB in a 231. I think what alot of us turbo drivers have come to realize, is that the operating recommendations in the POHs were part of the problem with engine life. "Best Power" in a POH from the 80's is typically right at 75 dF ROP which is the worst possible place to run an engine. Takeoff and climb in a turbo should be full power full rich. If you really want to go beaucoup fast all the time and don't mind Tops every 1,200 hours, then go ahead and operate at Best Power, but you will get much better engine longevity at either richer or leaner (lean of peak) power settings. That said, I understand the Bravos don't like LOP very much, don't know, haven't flown one. 

I can tell you from experience that engine starts and takeoffs in the lowly TSIO360 are a nonissue at SAF, SKX, up to and including LXV. 

That said, the O has plenty of power to handle takeoffs at those altitudes with maybe some exceptions. I also have been right seat in a C554 for takeoffs from high altitude in AZ on very hot summer days. OAT can be closing in on 120 dF, and you might be on a ranch strip (dirt). Every takeoff in an NA is a short field at those very high density altitudes, no matter how long the field is. That is why they make the fields longer out west.

[gsxrpilot]

41 minutes ago, philiplane said:

A turbocharged Lycoming will last longer and be more reliable than a turbo Continental. It has none of the cylinder issues (short service life, faulty rotocoils, weak valve guides, etc), there is no starter adapter to fail, and the turbo control system is the best one ever developed.

I don't know anything about the Lycomings, but my experience with the TSIO360 Continental has been great. I went past TBO without any new cylinders or turbo overhaul. Over all, it's been very reliable and maintenance free.

[gsxrpilot]

When I get back to Denver I'd be happy to give you a ride in my 252 to/from SBS. I'm based at BJC and can depart 30R and fly runway heading all the way to SBS... on a hot summer day. 

I've departed APA when the DA was nearly 12,000. No big deal.

I know a bunch of NA Mooneys that fly in and out of SBS and other airports in the mountains, but not with the same disregard for DA and terrain that a turbo affords.

[N201MKTurbo]

I lived in Denver when I bought my first Mooney. It was a NA M20F. I flew it to do service calls. Steamboat Springs was one of my regular stops. I probably went there about 10 times a year. I had no trouble getting there. 
 

Once when my plane was down, I tried to make it in a C150. That didn’t work...

[jsigmon]

36 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

When I get back to Denver I'd be happy to give you a ride in my 252 to/from SBS. I'm based at BJC and can depart 30R and fly runway heading all the way to SBS... on a hot summer day. 

I've departed APA when the DA was nearly 12,000. No big deal.

I know a bunch of NA Mooneys that fly in and out of SBS and other airports in the mountains, but not with the same disregard for DA and terrain that a turbo affords.

Paul You have a deal!

call/text 9703676140

[ilovecornfields]

My 310 HP Ovation had no issues coming out of Flagstaff on 7/4 in the middle of a heatwave at gross weight a coupe of years ago.

That being said, if I lived in the mountains I’d get a turbo. I’d be less worried about takeoff performance if it’s just you but I like to fly pretty high over the mountains and the Ovation’s climb rate above 15k is not that impressive.

[jsigmon]

7 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I lived in Denver when I bought my first Mooney. It was a NA M20F. I flew it to do service calls. Steamboat Springs was one of my regular stops. I probably went there about 10 times a year. I had no trouble getting there. 
 

Once when my plane was down, I tried to make it in a C150. That didn’t work...

Ha! 

But that's kind of what i experienced in and out of Taos in my ovation. It was fine and doeable, but i did have to obviously pick my times. 

[carusoam]

Oddly...

The title indicates a discussion regarding NA Ovations...

Expecting to extol the virtues of the NA 310hp at SL.... 

I looked into adding the twin snail exhaust system to my M20R... back during my OH...

Unfortunately, there are no compressors STC’d for the M20R...

Lightly loaded, 7k’ isn’t much of a challenge for a plane that is off the ground in 800’ at SL....

The lower FLs are available to these birds...

 

But, if you have the coin, and the desire, to be on the nose hose, in Class A airspace....

If you live and fly in the mountainous West....

Go Turbo Mooney!

Message to the OP... go ahead and edit your title as desired....  find the ‘...’ next to the title.

Best regards,

-a-

[jsigmon]

Just now, ilovecornfields said:

My 310 HP Ovation had no issues coming out of Flagstaff on 7/4 in the middle of a heatwave at gross weight a coupe of years ago.

That being said, if I lived in the mountains I’d get a turbo. I’d be less worried about takeoff performance if it’s just you but I like to fly pretty high over the mountains and the Ovation’s climb rate above 15k is not that impressive.

Exactly,

It'll goose on up to 14-15K but its pretty anemic. Most of my trips for business are westbound from colorado. Most of the low IFR routes I fly have MEA between 13-15K 

[jsigmon]

5 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Oddly...

The title indicates a discussion regarding NA Ovations...

Expecting to extol the virtues of the NA 310hp at SL....

I looked into adding the twin snail exhaust system to my M20R... back during my OH...

Unfortunately, there are no compressors STC’d for the M20R...

Lightly loaded, 7k’ isn’t much of a challenge for a plane that is off the ground in 800’ at SL....

The lower FLs are available to these birds...

 

But, if you have the coin, and the desire, to be on the nose hose, in Class A airspace....

Go Turbo Mooney!

Message to the OP... go ahead and edit your title as desired....  find the ‘...’ next to the title.

Best regards,

-a-

Right on!

[Ragsf15e]

You’ll probably be better off with a turbo, but you did say never more than 1 person.  You certainly don’t need full fuel either.  If you found a great O it would probably work fine lightly loaded.

[jsigmon]

17 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

You’ll probably be better off with a turbo, but you did say never more than 1 person.  You certainly don’t need full fuel either.  If you found a great O it would probably work fine lightly loaded.

Thanks Rags!