Aftermarket Airbag Woes - Ideas?

[ikeanddee]

2 years ago I installed airbags as a little feel good insurance. We went with AmSafe "State of the Art Restraint System" (SOARS), Part Number K7336. Unfortunately, if someone pulls out a seat without first disconnecting the electrical cable between the sensor and the seat, the cable connector breaks at the squib. AmSafe sells a replacement cable, part number is 513047-405-18 but it is a shocking $531.89 with 6 week lead time. The connector itself is automotive, manufactured by Delphi TTI (now Aptiv) in a connector family type ABX-3 with part number 47304601. The connector retails for $3.97 but it is backordered with a minimum quantity of 400 which would be $1,588.

I've called the big aircraft salvage yards (Preferred, Dodson, KRN, Beegles) and none have airbag parts.

If I could find the automotive application, we could potentially find an alternate. A 90 degree or 180 degree (straight) connector would work. Does anyone have a lead on this part or a working alternate to share?

I've attached a few mediocre close up shots of the connector; it's fairly small.

[carusoam]

The guy with the most experience in these things is Paul Maxwell... 

Give Paul a shout... @pMaxwell 

Best regards,

-a-

[tmo]

Probably a stupid suggestion, but perhaps you can exchange both ends with something similar that is currently available? Or even go milspec instead of automotive, so it is "better than original"

[Mark89114]

Auto salvage yard?
 

[ikeanddee]

@carusoam I sent a message to Paul Maxwell, I'll let you know what he says, 

@tmo, I have not found any alternate part number to cross reference.  

@Mark89114, the auto guys need to know the make, model and year of the auto; but I have not been able to figure out what autos use this connector.  

[Nick Pilotte]

Brent I answered your post on Beechtalk.  I am out and about right now but gave you a part number that should work to take the connector off of. 

[RobertGary1]

In Civil Air Patrol we've gone though the entire fleet and replaced AmSafe with regular seatbelts. The maintenance cost is high and the safety benefit was never proven.

 

-Robert

[ikeanddee]

Nick - thanks for the lead on the alternate part - the one side does look like it might fit.  For the folks on this thread: Doeman clock spring PN 525-101.

Other Beechtalk folks recommended checking with Textron; Amsafe is a factory option on late 182 & 206 aircraft and they stock a fair number of bits for these systems.

 

[RobertGary1]

13 hours ago, ikeanddee said:

Nick - thanks for the lead on the alternate part - the one side does look like it might fit.  For the folks on this thread: Doeman clock spring PN 525-101.

Other Beechtalk folks recommended checking with Textron; Amsafe is a factory option on late 182 & 206 aircraft and they stock a fair number of bits for these systems.

 

I would think twice and twice again before installing a Dorman part on my plane. Dorman is the punchline for most jokes in the automotive world. They make parts so you can sel your car and make it someone else’s problem. No legitimate shop would install a Dorman part on a car. 

[Nick Pilotte]

Ok, I was looking at using the connector body, which this part, in cross referencing is using the connector body he is looking at.  I would agree I don’t care for Dorman parts but that is far cheaper than his other options found so far.  But if it has the piece he needs....

[ikeanddee]

On a private thread late yesterday, a kind soul offered to mail me their OEM bag connector.  Apparently when the OEM bags time-out, they have to be replaced, leaving this husk behind. Yesterday I contacted AmSafe tech support. The design between the SOARS STC bags and the built in OEM belts are electrically different. The built in bags have a sensor to ensure the belt is buckled; the SOARS bags have no belt buckled sensor, just a G sensor, so the SOARS bags can trigger weather the belt is buckled or not. At any rate, AmSafe had half a dozen reasons why the parts are not interchangeable, but did admit that the squib connectors are the same. The squib end requires some disassembly to recover and the black connector shown above is a right angle vs a straight through (for the squib end). That all said, my mechanic and I believe it will work on the squib end. The mechanic's plan is to disassemble the plastic housing and put it on my cable / contacts since the contacts were thankfully not damaged. So long as the keying is the same and the clearance permits the right angle (it should), then we expect it will work. At any rate, I should have the parts mid-next week and best case will have a final answer by next weekend. I'll catch folks up on the thread once I have that answer.

 

 

[MB65E]

I have some timed out items removed from. Late T182T. You are welcome to what’s left. Not sure what the connectors look like. 

Such a PITA. I mean a 182 can touch down at 40kts? This year the battery modules are due for exchange.

-Matt

[ikeanddee]

Good News, the right angle connectors off the old seatbelt worked perfectly.  The mechanic pulled off the plastic housing and put it around the old connectors - voila. It's a match.  I've also cooked up a tag for the cotter key to warn folks to disconnect the airbag wire before removing the seats.

[carusoam]

Great follow-up Ike!

Best regards,

 -a-

[RobertGary1]

The Civil Air Patrol is removing all the AmSafe from their newer T206 and C182's. I'm sure the used parts market will be full.

 

-Robert

[1980Mooney]

On 2/6/2021 at 11:03 AM, MB65E said:

Such a PITA. I mean a 182 can touch down at 40kts?

-Matt

The air bag and belt isn’t there to protect you on the days when you land at 40kts....

[ikeanddee]

For the tags, I used Shutterfly. I wasn't sure if they were worth the $10 each I spent, but as it turns out, they are much better quality than I expected. They are light weight with a fairly robust aluminum substrate and excellent printing that is both crisp and appears well bonded to the aluminum. We've put 50+ flight hours on the plane and been through annual now; they've held up without a scratch - as have the plugs - woohoo!

If anyone wishes to just 'buy' a copy of the tag with out making their own, or wishes to use this tag as a starting point, follow this shutterfly link: ShutterflyTag

Tailwinds

[Jeffrey Ross]

I too am looking for this connector, anybody have one from a discarded/replaced system that they would be willing to part with?

Thanks, Jeff

[carusoam]

On 2/4/2021 at 12:08 AM, carusoam said:

The guy with the most experience in these things is Paul Maxwell... 

Give Paul a shout... @Pmaxwell

Best regards,

-a-

If looking for Paul…..   search for Maxwell Aviation at KGGG

 

Humble PP thoughts only… not familiar with the airbags at all…

Best regards,

-a-

[Jeffrey Ross]

Just following up as I wasn't able to obtain the broken connector.  I ended up designing and 3D printing the part.  The plastic used for the original part was Polybutylene Terephthalate which is a material I should be able to print on my printer, if not I'll use PETG.

Attached is a picture of the part printed in PLA while waiting for the PBT to come in at which point I'll reprint the piece.

[carusoam]

Interesting solution Jeffery!

The living hinge that holds things together is the tough part… to get a printer to print… and have it live in the real world over time…

Matching the polymer is going to be important for the health of the system…

You want to make sure it stays plugged in, and doesn’t leak electrons when the system is activated…

Printing vs molding adds another layer of randomness to keep an eye on…

 

 A bit of generic info about PBT… why it probably got selected for the application…

https://omnexus.specialchem.com/selection-guide/polybutylene-terephthalate-pbt-plastic

 

PP thoughts only, not a plastic connector maker…

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

On a separate note….

Any idea what broke the connector?

Trying to protect it from happening again may be a really good idea…

One got pulled apart during seat removal…

Wondering if a back seater may have kicked one accidentally…

If that is the case… protecting that wire just became really important…. 

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[Jeffrey Ross]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Interesting solution Jeffrey!

The living hinge that holds things together is the tough part… to get a printer to print… and have it live in the real world over time…

 

 

The living hinge as you call it,  I believe it's referred to as a "compliant structure" since this connector doesn't need to be removed very often if at all I don't expect an issue, plus even if it did need to be removed the amount of flexibility needed is very minor and shouldn't be an issue even after hundreds of removals.

 

To your second question, what caused it to break... Loading up the plane to/from OSH, or at least that is when it was noticed.  I suspect something hit it.  The other possibility is the wire got stuck and when the seat was moved forward it pulled the cableout.  The cylinder is attached to the back of the seat where rear passengers could kick it plus when it was installed there was no strain relief gives to this wire either.  I'm going to look to see if the cylinder can be moved/rotated so it is under the seat thus it'll have more protection and provide some strain relief.

If there are questions about installing a "home made" piece in a certified aircraft, I'm confident this falls squarely under the owner produced parts clause.  Owner produced parts still have to be approved the A&P who installs them as being airworthy, but I don't expect an issue there.

Truth be told I didn't design the part, my son did, I figured I paid for his mechanical engineering degree so he owes me the occasional 3D print.  Total cost to print the part (excluding college tuition) about $0.25 in material, sure beats the almost $600 the vendor wanted to replace the 10" wire that had nothing on it except 2 connectors.

Jeff

[emillyplungong]

On 2/4/2021 at 6:46 AM, ikeanddee said:

2 years ago I installed airbags as a little feel good insurance. We went with AmSafe "State of the Art Restraint System" (SOARS), Part Number K7336. Unfortunately, if someone pulls out a seat without first disconnecting the electrical cable between the sensor and the seat, the cable connector breaks at the squib. AmSafe sells a replacement cable, part number is 513047-405-18 but it is a shocking $531.89 with 6 week lead time. The connector itself is automotive, manufactured by Delphi TTI (now Aptiv) in a connector family type ABX-3 with part number 47304601. The connector retails for $3.97 but it is backordered with a minimum quantity of 400 which would be $1,588.

I've called the big aircraft salvage yards (Preferred, Dodson, KRN, Beegles) and none have airbag parts.

If I could find the automotive application, we could potentially find an alternate. A 90 degree or 180 degree (straight) connector would work. Does anyone have a lead on this part or a working alternate to share?

I've attached a few mediocre close up shots of the connector; it's fairly small.

work time

Are you considering an exchange for something newer?

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by emillyplungong

[Jeffrey Ross]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

Interesting solution Jeffrey!

The living hinge that holds things together is the tough part… to get a printer to print… and have it live in the real world over time…

Matching the polymer is going to be important for the health of the system…

You want to make sure it stays plugged in, and doesn’t leak electrons when the system is activated…

Printing vs molding adds another layer of randomness to keep an eye on…

 

 A bit of generic info about PBT… why it probably got selected for the application…

https://omnexus.specialchem.com/selection-guide/polybutylene-terephthalate-pbt-plastic

 

PP thoughts only, not a plastic connector maker…

Best regards,

-a-

I tried sending a response to this a few hours ago from my cell phone but it never posted for some reason.

I think what you are referring to is called a "compliant mechanism" which in this case are the locking tabs that need to be pressed in to disconnect the connector.  Based upon the material used and how little movement is needed to latch and unlatch the connector I think I'd be able to disconnect and reconnect the part hundreds of times, I think the metal contacts internal to the connector would show wear first in the plating before the plastic fatigued.

In regards to matching the polymer I for the most part agree and since I know what it is and can print it, I'll use it, however the manufacturer chose PBT most likely because it works well for injection molding and it can withstand high temperatures, beyond that I'm willing to bet that any of the 3D printing filaments are suitable as long as they are UV stable (PLA is not) and can withstand the expected temperatures, PET-G probably would work fine too.  Electrically the connector only has to last for one power cycle as the system is simply a one and done system and there is no communications to/from the discharge cylinder.

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

On a separate note….

Any idea what broke the connector?

Trying to protect it from happening again may be a really good idea…

One got pulled apart during seat removal…

Wondering if a back seater may have kicked one accidentally…

If that is the case… protecting that wire just became really important…. 

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

I'm pretty sure my trip to OSH broke the connector, we loaded up the back seat and floor of the airplane with a lot of bulky items and I'm sure either moving the seat fore and aft or simply piling stuff in the back hit the connector and broke it.  I am now going to look closely at the placement of the cylinder to see if its positioning can be adjusted slightly.  Right now the cylinder is attached to the back of the seat "pan" right where feet and items on the floor can hit it, I suspect I can move the cylinder so it is directly under the seat frame  where it would be better protected.  The inflator hose right now comes from around the back of the seat, I'm envisioning it coming from under the seat instead, I'm going to have to pull the seats and look at the system closely.  Keep in mind this is on a C182 (H model) and there is plenty of room directly under the seat, this is my plan assuming the installation instructions allow for this which I think they do.

In terms of using a home made 3D printed part on a certified aircraft I think this part falls squarely under the owner produced part (FAR 21.9 (a)(5)). Granted the final authority does fall on the IA to make sure it is suitably made before he/she installs it, but I don't think I'll have a problem with that.

Jeff

Edited August 25, 2021 by Jeffrey Ross