Looking for an Insructor for insurance minimums

[cwaters]

Hey, I am in the final steps of buying a '77 201 and am looking for an instructor in the NOVA (KHWY) area who could travel to help me pick up the plane and provide the instruction required by the insurance company. I listed their requirements below. Obviously I'll cover your airline ticket to go pick up the plane (currently in FL). I am currently looking at closing the first week of December and would really like to be able to fly my wife an I to see family for Christmas, so availability on a few weekends would be key. I work a 9-5 so most of my flying is weekend only and would have to go down to pick up the plane on a weekend as well.

 

Requirements from the insurance company.

Has logged a minimum total time of 500 hours, including a minimum of 100 hours in retractable gear aircraft and a minimum of 50 hours in the same make and model aircraft being flown.

A bit about me:

~100hr TT with 0 mooney or complex time. I'm looking for a CFII so that some of the 10 hr min time can go to some instrument training as I progress toward my IR.

I'm 27, military (go space force!!) Most of my flying has been between Cherokees (many years ago) and 172s more recently. I have been flying a good bit in the last few years and am current.

Edited November 19, 2020 by cwaters
Added info about me

[StevenL757]

First, congratulations on your purchase.

Can you comment a bit about your flying background, and specifically, your Mooney experience and currency?  Not seeing anything listed in your previous posts.

Thanks, Steve

[Hank]

Looks like the OP wants Transition Training. 

Agree that some background info would help find an appropriate CFI / CFII.

[cwaters]

Edited with some of my experience

[Stan]

I suggest Lee Fox, he is at Shannon (KEZF).  He went with me to Greensboro (KGSO) to pick up my J.

It was my second J but a few years have passed since I last flew one.

Former American Airlines Check pilot.

Don't know how far he is willing to travel, but a great Mooney CFII, as he owns a J.

Send me a PM if interested.

 

 

 

[kortopates]

I'd suggest you contact @mike_elliott He's is Florida on the Gulf coast and if he can't do it, he has some other Mooney CFI's that can.

Realistically, I'd give up the notion of flying your family in the bird for Christmas, these things always take longer than you expect and very often the ferry flight reveals some maintenance needed. Plus you've mentioned you can only fly weekends and you're going to need every one of those 10 hrs of transition training if not more, doing maneuvers and landings, before you're ready to solo. Although the cross country will be a great learning experience and you'll lean a lot about the airplane,  its not really the intensive training you need initially in the pattern.

You'll probably want to wait till you get some solo time built up before taking your family and then pick the first  flights very carefully for distance, weather and conditions so that they'll be confidence inspiring rather than scary.

Lastly the insurance requirements you refer to are what are referred to as the Open Pilot Clause - they just ensure you the named insured are covered if there is an issue, but the CFI could then be subrogated against because they're not insured by that. Because of this, expect any experienced CFI will require to be added as a named insured with waiver of subrogation so that the policy insures you both.

Good luck and enjoy!   

[cwaters]

31 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I'd suggest you contact @mike_elliott He's is Florida on the Gulf coast and if he can't do it, he has some other Mooney CFI's that can.

Realistically, I'd give up the notion of flying your family in the bird for Christmas, these things always take longer than you expect and very often the ferry flight reveals some maintenance needed. Plus you've mentioned you can only fly weekends and you're going to need every one of those 10 hrs of transition training if not more, doing maneuvers and landings, before you're ready to solo. Although the cross country will be a great learning experience and you'll lean a lot about the airplane,  its not really the intensive training you need initially in the pattern.

You'll probably want to wait till you get some solo time built up before taking your family and then pick the first  flights very carefully for distance, weather and conditions so that they'll be confidence inspiring rather than scary.

Lastly the insurance requirements you refer to are what are referred to as the Open Pilot Clause - they just ensure you the named insured are covered if there is an issue, but the CFI could then be subrogated against because they're not insured by that. Because of this, expect any experienced CFI will require to be added as a named insured with waiver of subrogation so that the policy insures you both.

Good luck and enjoy!   

For Christmas its more of a "this would be great" (10 hr drive otherwise). Its not a driving factor but would be great to not drive 10 hrs to spend 2 days with family and then drive 10 hrs back.

 

As for the weekend thing, if possible I'd like to stick to the weekends but if I needed to take some days to do some more training then so be it, but that's a plan of attack I would need to setup with the CFI I guess depending on their schedule too.

 

I don't think I fully understand the Insurance part of your comment though. Can you explain that a bit more? The insurance company told me this "Prior to solo, Mr. Waters must successfully complete a minimum of 10 hours in a Mooney M20J, while accompanied by a FAA Certificated Flight Instructor who meets the conditions of the Open Pilot Clause." And you are right the requirements I listed are those of the open pilot clause.

 

[kortopates]

14 minutes ago, cwaters said:

I don't think I fully understand the Insurance part of your comment though. Can you explain that a bit more? The insurance company told me this "Prior to solo, Mr. Waters must successfully complete a minimum of 10 hours in a Mooney M20J, while accompanied by a FAA Certificated Flight Instructor who meets the conditions of the Open Pilot Clause." And you are right the requirements I listed are those of the open pilot clause.

Sure, the point about the open pilot clause is that it only ensures you the owner. Say the worst happened, the insurance company would make you whole. But the CFI or any pilot meeting the open pilot clause is not insured under your policy - just you and any other named insured -  and after paying off you they could subrogate against your CFI or pilot operating under the open pilot clause to cover their losses.  The open pilot clause just ensures that anyone meeting those requirements keeps the policy in effect or  operation insured. Therefore when it comes to instructing pilots in owner aircraft, its a common request to add the instructor as a named insured so that the instructor is also covered by your policy. 

[cwaters]

@kortopates Thank you for the explanation that makes a lot more sense now. I was interpreting it as they would be covered if they met those requirements. I didn't realize the company could then turn and go after them. But that is why us new guys ask the questions here.

[mike_elliott]

Thanks Paul, Cwaters, I responded to your PM

Mike Elliott

 

[carusoam]

+1 for bringing Mr. Elliot along!

I have met Lee Fox too... but only spoke briefly...
 

CW,  keep asking questions!

Transition Training is a great way to learn the finer details of your plane...

They can include lots of local flights to the practice area... and lots of runways... and E-procedures...

The delivery flight is the cool long X-Country flight... done IFR is a great next step...

It can be a pretty intense learning experience... so bringing people along for the flight portions won’t be very fun for them... and can be distracting for you as a ‘student’...

I probably missed what was intended in your schedule...

There are so many variables...  planes that are new 2U... can behave terribly... something doesn’t work right, or a leak occurs...

It doesn’t necessarily leave a good first impression on the family....

Of course, that’s just my family... yours could be much hipper than mine... 

Best regards,

-a-

[hypertech]

Lee is great and I would also suggest Will Wobbe.  Not knocking Mike, but you may want more instruction than just the flight home so it would be of benefit to get to know Will and/or Lee.

[cwaters]

4 hours ago, hypertech said:

Lee is great and I would also suggest Will Wobbe.  Not knocking Mike, but you may want more instruction than just the flight home so it would be of benefit to get to know Will and/or Lee.

Could you PM me any contact info for him? You make a good point about having someone in my area for more training and such.

 

 

14 hours ago, carusoam said:

+1 for bringing Mr. Elliot along!

I have met Lee Fox too... but only spoke briefly...
 

CW,  keep asking questions!

Transition Training is a great way to learn the finer details of your plane...

They can include lots of local flights to the practice area... and lots of runways... and E-procedures...

The delivery flight is the cool long X-Country flight... done IFR is a great next step...

It can be a pretty intense learning experience... so bringing people along for the flight portions won’t be very fun for them... and can be distracting for you as a ‘student’...

I probably missed what was intended in your schedule...

There are so many variables...  planes that are new 2U... can behave terribly... something doesn’t work right, or a leak occurs...

It doesn’t necessarily leave a good first impression on the family....

Of course, that’s just my family... yours could be much hipper than mine... 

Best regards,

-a-

in an ideal world, I'd like to be able to fly my wife and I from Va to Ga for Christmas. I'm fully aware that it might not happen and there is a lot to transition training and getting into a new plane and getting comfortable. I have no problem (while i will be annoyed) scratching the flight and driving for Christmas instead.

 

All in all, I'm just supper excited to get this journey underway and start flying my own plane.

[Will W]

Hey cwaters.

I sent you a PM with my contact information. I'm based in the area and have all insurance requirements for the instructor.

Will

[carusoam]

CW,

Did your insurance company give you any limitations?  (I see you mentioned some detail)

Often they require something like these...

• 10 hours with a CFI
• 10 hours solo
• prior to carrying passengers

This was the requirement I had from Y2K, for my M20C...

I was young, cash was tight, and getting through these hours seemed like it took forever... an hour or two each week...

Oddly, I got a similar sentence when moving up to the M20R a decade later... just not the extra 10hours of solo...

Sounds like having training wheels... but, it is a great opportunity to get everyone up to speed before being set loose...  

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

12 hours ago, carusoam said:

CW,

Did your insurance company give you any limitations?  (I see you mentioned some detail)

Often they require something like these...

• 10 hours with a CFI
• 10 hours solo
• prior to carrying passengers

This was the requirement I had from Y2K, for my M20C...

I was young, cash was tight, and getting through these hours seemed like it took forever... an hour or two each week...

Oddly, I got a similar sentence when moving up to the M20R a decade later... just not the extra 10hours of solo...

Sounds like having training wheels... but, it is a great opportunity to get everyone up to speed before being set loose...  

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

My initial requirements were either 15 dual + 10 solo, or 15 dual including 5 actual / simulated IMC with an instructor the insuarance company liked. I went the second route; pointed directly toward a cliud for the first time, I said " this just feels so wrong." He replied "it is. Keep going."

Fun times! Visited almost every airport within an hour's flight, learned something on every trip. Took two months . . . . My PPL was still freshly arrived in the mail.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Hank

[cwaters]

16 hours ago, carusoam said:

CW,

Did your insurance company give you any limitations?  (I see you mentioned some detail)

Often they require something like these...

• 10 hours with a CFI
• 10 hours solo
• prior to carrying passengers

This was the requirement I had from Y2K, for my M20C...

I was young, cash was tight, and getting through these hours seemed like it took forever... an hour or two each week...

Oddly, I got a similar sentence when moving up to the M20R a decade later... just not the extra 10hours of solo...

Sounds like having training wheels... but, it is a great opportunity to get everyone up to speed before being set loose...  

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

I have the same requirements. 10hr dual and 10hr solo prior to passengers being covered.