Cost of maintaining TKS/FIKI

[Ragsf15e]

4 hours ago, Mufflerbearing said:

I have FIKI on my M20S Screaming Eagle.  One of several reasons I bought this particular airplane.  It is not expensive to maintain, just do it.  The cost comes in when it is neglected.  It is excellent and now I wouldn't have a plane without it.  Than again, I live in Idaho and not Arizona.

 

Ha, you probably have similar weather to me in eastern Washington.  Where are you based?

Do you mind telling me your useful load?  Is that with full fluid or empty?

Eagle with tks is a great airplane in the NW.

[Ragsf15e]

8 hours ago, Davidv said:

Something I’ve wondered is the amount of ice it can comfortably handle.  Light rime? Moderate? Clear? What’s been your most severe encounter with the system? 
 

it’s the one thing I wish my plane had.

I agree with @GeeBee, TKS is better than boots.  I’ve only flown tks on a cirrus, but I fly a Meridian with boots all winter around the NW.  Depending on temp, dew point, pressure and PFM (pure F magic), there’s a good deal of residual ice stuck on the boots.  Enough to degrade performance at times.  You can really see why they are for quickly climbing up or descending down through an ice layer.  TKS keeps the wings so clean it probably gives a false sense of security because I’m sure it can be overcome.  Running out of fluid would suck too, but full tanks give hours at normal settings.

[Flyphilly]

Someone above mentioned TKS fluid goes bad- is this something you have to be mindful of?

ie- in the summer, only put enough in the tanks each month to push through the following month and so on? Or not that sensitive?

Edited October 2, 2020 by Flyphilly

[Mufflerbearing]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

Ha, you probably have similar weather to me in eastern Washington.  Where are you based?

Do you mind telling me your useful load?  Is that with full fluid or empty?

Eagle with tks is a great airplane in the NW.

I am based out of KCOE, so we are neighbors!  My useful load with the changes to my plane is around 1000 lbs.  I have to look at the POH to get the exact number, but it is very close.  Yes, took a bit of a hit with the FIKI on useful load and airspeed of a few knots, but really worth it. I believe the UL numbers do not include the TKS fluid. 

[Ragsf15e]

5 minutes ago, Mufflerbearing said:

I am based out of KCOE, so we are neighbors!  My useful load with the changes to my plane is around 1000 lbs.  I have to look at the POH to get the exact number, but it is very close.  Yes, took a bit of a hit with the FIKI on useful load and airspeed of a few knots, but really worth it. I believe the UL numbers do not include the TKS fluid. 

Awesome, thanks!  Eagle with tks is my dream plane!  My F is great, but not very useful in the winter.

I live in Liberty Lake, just across the border, so if you ever want to get together for a “Mooney fly-in” let me know!  Or if you need a flight review/ipc.  Will trade for $100 hamburger run!

[Mufflerbearing]

15 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Awesome, thanks!  Eagle with tks is my dream plane!  My F is great, but not very useful in the winter.

I live in Liberty Lake, just across the border, so if you ever want to get together for a “Mooney fly-in” let me know!  Or if you need a flight review/ipc.  Will trade for $100 hamburger run!

Sounds awesome!  I'll PM my phone number. 

[JT]

4 hours ago, GeeBee said:

I have been in moderate icing and found it quite effective. I like it better than boots. I've flown them all, bleed air, boots and TKS. Bleed air works great if you have the engine power which many airplanes do not (like the MD-80). TKS IMHO works better than boots.

As to my pushing 50 bucks worth a fluid every month. Yep I do and I find the reliability of the system greatly increases the more you use it. Two gallons of fluid a month is what I have found to keep the thing in really good shape. You can do less, but it takes longer for the system to pressure up etc. This way, lights go green the minute I hit the switch.

 

How do you deal with the run-off? 2 gallon Mooney shaped puddle on the hangar floor??? I'm assuming it's it an ecological faux pas to let 24 gallons of ethylene glycol soak into the grass every year.

[alextstone]

I have an interesting story to tell about TKS fluid (to me at least).  I live in Hattiesburg, MS (yes we have icing here too)  Hattiesburg is home to Bret Favre, and somewhat coincidentally it is also ground zero for one of the largest healthcare fraud schemes in US history, often referred to as the "Creme Scheme"  Also coincidentally, Bret Favre was a pitch man for a moment for the Creme Scheme.  When the key players were arrested and their businesses and homes were raided by the FBI, their multimillion dollar aircraft were confiscated (along with their herd of Buffalo and a multitude of homes and automobiles). 

These aircraft were based at KPIB where, as luck would have it, my aircraft is also based.  The FBI hauled off everything in the hangar EXCEPT and almost full 55 gallon drum of...you guessed it, TKS fluid!  I've stared at that drum for a year now, trying to get the courage up to help myself to the abandoned liquid.  Shelf life is a concern as is being arrested for stealing what is now federal property.  As to the latter, I figure enough time has elapsed and I am doing the environment a favor IF I use it (I'll hire the hangar elves to do the transfer if I do).  As to the former, I have a calibrated pH meter and I will test the fluid for neutral pH (7).  Acidity seems to be the factor that leads to corrosive potential.  

So there you go.  There is risk in everything we do.  We must chose our own level of risk tolerance, from peddling pain creme to using old un-confiscated TKS fluid.  

[MooneyMitch]

56 minutes ago, alextstone said:

I have an interesting story to tell about TKS fluid (to me at least).  I live in Hattiesburg, MS (yes we have icing here too)  Hattiesburg is home to Bret Favre, and somewhat coincidentally it is also ground zero for one of the largest healthcare fraud schemes in US history, often referred to as the "Creme Scheme"  Also coincidentally, Bret Favre was a pitch man for a moment for the Creme Scheme.  When the key players were arrested and their businesses and homes were raided by the FBI, their multimillion dollar aircraft were confiscated (along with their herd of Buffalo and a multitude of homes and automobiles). 

These aircraft were based at KPIB where, as luck would have it, my aircraft is also based.  The FBI hauled off everything in the hangar EXCEPT and almost full 55 gallon drum of...you guessed it, TKS fluid!  I've stared at that drum for a year now, trying to get the courage up to help myself to the abandoned liquid.  Shelf life is a concern as is being arrested for stealing what is now federal property.  As to the latter, I figure enough time has elapsed and I am doing the environment a favor IF I use it (I'll hire the hangar elves to do the transfer if I do).  As to the former, I have a calibrated pH meter and I will test the fluid for neutral pH (7).  Acidity seems to be the factor that leads to corrosive potential.  

So there you go.  There is risk in everything we do.  We must chose our own level of risk tolerance, from peddling pain creme to using old un-confiscated TKS fluid.  

The authorities are monitoring this thread !! 

[carusoam]

5 hours ago, Flyphilly said:

Someone above mentioned TKS fluid goes bad- is this something you have to be mindful of?

ie- in the summer, only put enough in the tanks each month to push through the following month and so on? Or not that sensitive?

Like any container carrying chemicals in it....

There will be a best used by date system in use....

It is important to keep the container sealed... as water will want to enter the container as well as the alcohols wanting to leave...

The material characteristics will change incredibly slowly over time, so keep the containers sealed...

In the plane... the containers are vented somehow...  unlike fine wine... TKS fluid doesn’t improve with age... Or exposure to the atmosphere...

Read the labels, follow the guidance...

PP thoughts, not a mass transfer expert...

As for using a magic 55g drum of unknown origin... if any people from the cream scheme disappeared... a 55g drum is a traditional place to store evidence... so stick the drum before use...  To determine if anything/one has been pickled at the bottom... 

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

Generally life is about 2 years. I have been just ordering it in gallon bottles from Amazon, yes Amazon. Better price in bulk from Spruce, but the gallon bottles keep it fresh.

As to how do I deal with the run-off? I don't in general unless it is for maintenance. If it is for maintenance I pull the airplane just outside my hangar and let it run onto the asphalt. It seeps in fast and the mark is gone with the next rain. I really don't like to do that because unless you want a mess running out of your cowl from the slinger nozzle you need to cap it off. For just exercising the system, I do so when I fly the airplane. I did so today. Ran both windshield pumps and both airfoil pumps. Sorry about that TKS fluid falling on you in Tuscaloosa, but then again, Sabin has it coming.

 

[carusoam]

Safety note:  

If you drop the TKS fluid on the floor... it can be very slippery...

Best regards,

-a-