TSA

[PTK]

Quote: PilotDerek

[flyboy0681]

Quote: allsmiles

If you understand that every civil society has laws and our country was founded with people's rights first, then you must also understand that these laws are necessary in order to have a civil society. Also you'd agree that our laws are not handed down by some dictator. Instead they are made by US the same people whose rights we protect! 

And yes taxes are a privilege and a requirement. This is how we can afford to fund all the services we provide to our citizens and maintain our civil society. 

[RJBrown]

This country was founded on the premise that governments receive their JUST power from the governed.

 The change from "rights" to "privileges" and the sheepishly compliant attitudes seen here illustrate the perversion of our society.

 Governments have NO rights, people have rights.

 Governments don't have the authority to grant "privileges".

 The twisted belief that the government can give anything is destroying our country.

[jetdriven]

deleted

[jetdriven]

double post.

[Shadrach]

Quote: Becca

So, flying is actually treated no differently than driving, which is also a priveldge.  While driving, at any time, the police can ask you for your license.  If you misbehave in any way (e.g. drunk driving), they can take that priveldge away.  The authorities can limit where and when you drive, require you to register your car, follow posted signs, stop at checkpoints (e.g. holiday weekend drunk driver check points, or, my least favorite, border patrol checkpoints as you pass through el paso).  Flying is no more a right than driving.  I think we all agree that its good that there's flying licensing standards - if flying were a "right", they wouldn't have to require a license to do it or any rules of the road you have to follow.  This is all and all a silly conversation if you ask me.  If you take away the terms "privledge" and "right" and just talk about the way things should be, I think we'd all agree that it makes sense there is some rules and regulations associated with flying and its not a bunch of cowboys in the sky with no training and no rules.  You may like or dislike individual rules and regulations (personally I would do away with third class medicals for private pilots, for instance), and I certainly think individual rules are open for debate.  But that there exists some code of conduct, I think I am ok with - not just as a pilot, but as a commercial airline passenger and as a member of the public.  Are you all really proposing here that any form of regulation on aviation is a violation of your civil liberties?  Really?

[flyboy0681]

I agree with others here, let's get back on topic.

[MARZ]

Heard on the radio today that TSA wants to put "flying public advocates" hired by TSA to mediate when the flying public has a gripe about being strip searched....

Create a monster - let it unionize - then let it self mediate

Another failure by the government. 

[PTK]

Quote: RJBrown

This country was founded on the premise that governments receive their JUST power from the governed.

 The change from "rights" to "privileges" and the sheepishly compliant attitudes seen here illustrate the perversion of our society.

 Governments have NO rights, people have rights.

 Governments don't have the authority to grant "privileges".

 The twisted belief that the government can give anything is destroying our country.

[flyboy0681]

One day the TSA will be able to spot a potential "terrorist" at 20 paces without even having to look in their eyes. They will look at the early days of their methodologies and admit just how absurd it was to search an 80 year old grandmother and her walker.

But until then, drop your drawers.

[PTK]

Quote: flyboy0681

One day the TSA will be able to spot a potential "terrorist" at 20 paces without even having to look in their eyes. They will look at the early days of their methodologies and admit just how absurd it was to search an 80 year old grandmother and her walker.

But until then, drop your drawers.

[MARZ]

Quote: allsmiles

I have no problem searching an 80 year old grandmother and her walker. If it means keeping the flight from blowing up in the air I have no problem at all. It is a privilege to fly and not a right!

[Shadrach]

Quote: allsmiles

You make valid points. If you accept that our government is of the people by the people and for the people which I hope you accept, then by definition our government is us. We are our government! Therefore we the people create rights and privileges for our protection and welfare.

[Shadrach]

Quote: allsmiles

I have no problem searching an 80 year old grandmother and her walker. If it means keeping the flight from blowing up in the air I have no problem at all. It is a privilege to fly and not a right!

[DaV8or]

Quote: sleepingsquirrel

How about from now on we just call them Brownshirts. That is the pre WWII stage I'm reminded of here and now.

I think in retrospect that Europes problem was ignoring the 800 Lb. gorilla in the room.

[GeorgePerry]

 Things I think we should (or at least try to) agree on:

(1) the TSA and it's methods are generally not well liked...Both by GA pilots and the law abiding traveling public.

(2) WWII and the atrocities committed by NAZI's were a dark time in human history.  Although we all have freedom of speech, referencing that time to form an analogy or make a point may evoke strong emotions and should probably be avoided.

(3) If you don't like how our country, the government, the TSA and FAA are being run, your most powerful tool isn't this forum, it's the voting booth.  November 6, 2012 is less than one year away...We should all choose wisely.

(4) We should keep personal attacks to a minimum.  Opinions will differ, there's merit in debate, but it's important that we articulate our positions in a constructive and respectful way.  If you feel strongly about a particular non aviation related issue, it's likely wise to take it off the boards and use a PM to voice your opinion.

(5) This forum is largely unregulated and un-moderated, which in the aggregate is a good thing.  With that, it is important that we police ourselves and keep the dialoged constructive and focused on aviation and Mooney aircraft. 

Merry Christmas...and goodwill to all!

 

[74657]

Well said George.

Freedom doesn't come free and once you give it away there are few options left to get it back.

 

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

so what do you all think about LoP operations?

[co2bruce]

I don't believe in LOP operations, I'm too busy trying to find the perfect oil.

[MooneyMitch]

Wait, let's not go there with this LOP vs. ROP thing!  I want to talk about bladders vs. wet wing please !!

[Vref]

How about tools for  pre-heating your engine...;-)?

[OR75]

what about parts and when we will be able to get FAA approved parts made in China ?

[rob]

It's good to see that Godwin's law is still going strong.

 

To Scott: I don't much care what's in your avatar or signature, but we've seen that several others do. In the interest of being a good neighbor, have you considered perhaps changing it?

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: rob

It's good to see that Godwin's law is still going strong.

 

To Scott: I don't much care what's in your avatar or signature, but we've seen that several others do. In the interest of being a good neighbor, have you considered perhaps changing it?

[AndyFromCB]

I think anybody complaining about Scott's avatar should just quit flying. I find the noise over house offending (nevermind I bought right next to the airport) and your lead in my lettuce unacceptable. On top of everything I get PSD everytime I see one of you over my head because of my Grandma's WWII stories told to me when I was a young, impressionable child...