Electric Mooney

[Blue on Top]

@aviatoreb  Agree with you on the multi-emoji idea.  I am often self-conflicted in that area.  Tragically, they believe that the accident was a stall/spin/spiral (loss of control).

PS.  This conversation is awesome, but I really, really, REALLY need to get to GoCreate Wichita for work!  I'm looking at STCs for both old and new technologies!

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Blue on Top
Add the PS

[N201MKTurbo]

10 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

The Moller Sky Car was fantastically over the top.

But this little baby deeply obsoletes that never-happened thing. https://www.avweb.com/recent-updates/evtols-urban-mobility/ehang-holds-aav-sightseeing-flight-trial/

Let's Uber that baby.

I'm not sure I'm ready to ride in a quadcopter. They autorotate like a sack of cement.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I'm not sure I'm ready to ride in a quadcopter. They autorotate like a sack of cement.

Yeah - but better than a Moller Sky Car.

Meh - eventually - give me a centi-copter (100) or even an octocopter with .... wait for it... a parachute, and I'll hail that on Uber.  Here comes George Jetson.

[mike_elliott]

6 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Let’s make it easy. 1000 lbs of people and stuff. Coast to coast without swapping batteries in a day.

That would probably make all our planes lose a sh&*pot of value the very next day. Jonathan Paul did a non stop in his E a few years ago with his long range tanks, but think it took more than 13 hrs. Correct me if I am wrong. I think his full fuel payload was a couple hundred #

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

On 7/17/2020 at 11:24 AM, aviatoreb said:

I absolutely don't think the bye project is bullshit.  It is as far as I am concerned, fundamental research. 

If not bullshit, perhaps more akin to the guy who looks for his lost keys under the street light.  I would also like to build a unique airplane, and since my expertise is in aerospace rather than batteries, I see the appeal.  Battery technology to make it real is most likely at least 20 years out, so work to incorporate the full system into an aircraft is somewhat premature. 

I do not regard it as fundamental research when someone makes excessive claims about what he is about to accomplish when he is not doing any work on the thing, (batteries), that will actually bring about the revolution.

[mike_elliott]

5 minutes ago, Ah-1 Cobra Pilot said:

Battery technology to make it real is most likely at least 20 years out,

What Jeff Dahm has up his sleeve and the patents recently applied for might shorten this time frame speculation immensly. Sept 22nd might reveal a lot of answers here

[N201MKTurbo]

Batteries are chemistry. You can only pack so much energy into so much space. 

It reminds me of rocket fuel. they were forever trying to find the secret sauce, and after all this time they are back to kerosene and oxygen.

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

13 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

What Jeff Dahm has up his sleeve and the patents recently applied for might shorten this time frame speculation immensly. Sept 22nd might reveal a lot of answers here

I remember about 20 years ago, the highly successful inventor and entrepreneur Dean Kamen announcing a "revolution in transportation"!  What did we get?  meh.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellynch/2020/06/29/the-demise-of-the-segway-is-a-cautionary-tale-for-technological-optimists/#2c971d991173

[mike_elliott]

I guess the insignifcance of segways impact on transportation is a sure sign of what Jeff Dahm's battery technology innovations and patents will mean also? I dont see the correlation as clearly as you do. I of course could be way off base and this will  be a nothing burger, but so far, Jeff Dahm's credentials say it wont be, but in fact will be game changing. Smart money says so at anyrate

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

Just now, mike_elliott said:

I guess the insignifcance of segways impact on transportation is a sure sign of what Jeff Dahm's battery technology innovations and patents will mean also? I dont see the correlation as clearly as you do.

You should read the article.  A little skepticism is a good thing.

[mike_elliott]

Just now, Ah-1 Cobra Pilot said:

You should read the article.  A little skepticism is a good thing.

agreed, and so is science and technology. Where it ends up will remain to be seen. Hopefully it will be used for the betterment of society.

[mike_elliott]

37 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Batteries are chemistry. You can only pack so much energy into so much space. 

It reminds me of rocket fuel. they were forever trying to find the secret sauce, and after all this time they are back to kerosene and oxygen.

yes they are chemistry much like kerosene and oxygen. Fortunately, someone found they could refine the chemistry and make kerosene. This just may be happening in energy havesting in batteries...Sept 22 will answer a lot of questions.

full disclosure, I am long on TSLA, LAC, and PLL

[carusoam]

The latest electric Mustang from Ford...  Still prototype level... but a 1400hp prototype... 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/21/ford-unveils-electric-mustang-mach-e-race-car-with-1400-horsepower.html

-a-

[aviatoreb]

...back to electric airplanes.

How about a turbo prop airplane burning jet-a with a pair of big electric motors turning two more props (for four) for boost for take-off.

70 passager plane for "2028" (which with an 8 year horizon we all know places it firmly in the vapor-ware territory, but still..).

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/eag-proposes-electric-airliner/

[EricJ]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

The latest electric Mustang from Ford...  Still prototype level... but a 1400hp prototype... 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/21/ford-unveils-electric-mustang-mach-e-race-car-with-1400-horsepower.html

-a-

The large automakers have been taking their time on development, so I think think the new mainstream EVs that are coming out are quite promising.    I think this is really good promotional work by Ford, too, and a ton of fun.  Once the mainstream EVs start hitting the market it may be a paradigm shift for all of the infrastructure support, but we'll see.

Between this and the new Bronco I'm thinking Ford has some really good stuff in the near end of the pipeline.    I'm gonna need something to replace my 20-year old Ranger that I bought new, but the new ones are a little longer and won't fit in my garage.  So the Bronco is going to be a good candidate.

[aviatoreb]

Seems like electric trains should be in the discussion.  How about the new 360kph Japanese train.  https://www.jrailpass.com/blog/shinkasen-n700s

[mike_elliott]

45 minutes ago, EricJ said:

The large automakers have been taking their time on development, so I think think the new mainstream EVs that are coming out are quite promising.    I think this is really good promotional work by Ford, too, and a ton of fun.  Once the mainstream EVs start hitting the market it may be a paradigm shift for all of the infrastructure support, but we'll see.

Between this and the new Bronco I'm thinking Ford has some really good stuff in the near end of the pipeline.    I'm gonna need something to replace my 20-year old Ranger that I bought new, but the new ones are a little longer and won't fit in my garage.  So the Bronco is going to be a good candidate.

A lot of the delay is the "osborn" effect, the need for the depletion of 3rd party suppliers inventory, the "reimagining" of how the dealership profit model will work, development of technology that could be competitive. Traditional car makers have been invited to the mainstream EV maker's party, so much so many of Tesla's patents are in the public domain for their use. They have enormous hurdles to compete, however, including on the monetary front, with Telsa now a larger market cap company than Home Depot and JP Morgan Chase.

Apple is Tesla's real competition, and perhaps the rich kid Bezos. They both know this isnt about transmission, but AI and SAS

[EricJ]

34 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Seems like electric trains should be in the discussion.  How about the new 360kph Japanese train.  https://www.jrailpass.com/blog/shinkasen-n700s

 The fastest I've ever been on land was on the maglev from downtown Shanghai to the airport.   All electric.  431 kph = 268 mph.

I never got to ride the bullets in Japan or the TGV in France.
 

 

[EricJ]

1 minute ago, mike_elliott said:

A lot of the delay is the "osborn" effect, the need for the depletion of 3rd party suppliers inventory, the "reimagining" of how the dealership profit model will work, development of technology that could be competitive. Traditional car makers have been invited to the mainstream EV maker's party, so much so many of Tesla's patents are in the public domain for their use. They have enormous hurdles to compete, however, including on the monetary front, with Telsa now a larger market cap company than Home Depot and JP Morgan Chase.

Apple is Tesla's real competition, and perhaps the rich kid Bezos. They both know this isnt about transmission, but AI and SAS

Bob Lutz, somebody who knows a lot about the car business and the technology and is also an avid aviator, disagrees.   

https://insideevs.com/news/420876/bob-lutz-explains-tesla-doomed/

[mike_elliott]

yea, ol Bob has been coming on CNBC for about 10 years or so claiming Tesla is going out of business on a regular basis. Perhaps he can devise a way to pay back the taxpayers for GMs bailout soon. While he is spreading the FUD, Elon's net worth will probably increase today more than Ol Bob's entire net worth. I realize thats not a barometer for expertise, perhaps how successful your company is might be better. Oh wait, GM is losing market share....nevermind. Maybe Tesla will buy them to save them.

Here is one of ol Bob's predictions of 2 years ago. You be the judge of where things are today.

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

6 hours ago, EricJ said:

 The fastest I've ever been on land was on the maglev from downtown Shanghai to the airport.   All electric.  431 kph = 268 mph.

I never got to ride the bullets in Japan or the TGV in France.

I've ridden the Eurostar. wish it was slower. We were in first class and treated like kings! It was over way too soon.

[aviatoreb]

How s as bout this - and Lsa-a and then are promising 200nm range with lithium sulfur batteries.  Don’t shoot the messenger I’m just repeating - 

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/texas-aircraft-developing-ecolt/

[N201MKTurbo]

So, our starting batteries lose capacity after a while. Every lithium battery I have had has eventually failed. 

How can you trust the range numbers of an electric plane, unless you do periodic capacity tests. How often? Annually? Every 100 hours?

Just think about the load box for that! Not to mention you would need to waste a tank of batteries.

I imagine they could monitor the current/voltage in real time and determine the capacity by the prior performance. You better hope their software is good. Aw, heck just get Boeing to write it.

[carusoam]

Bob Lutz is brilliant... a bit wacky lately...

Battery Day is coming...

The traditions that are falling quickly...

1) Going to a car dealer to buy a car... in NJ, Nissan has an app for that... they bring the car to you... Post pandemic NJ...

2) The fuel companies are also explaining their profits are starting to wane.... with so many EVs coming on line... fun time have begun... it’s Q2 earning season... in the mid pandemic fin world...

3) Tesla, today, announced their fourth profitable quarter in a row...

Elon Musk is brilliant...always been wacky... flame throwers, designer shorts for the shorts, weed smoking during a podcast... projected stock price to go to 420 to match a traditional weed smoking afternoon time of 4:20... CEOs Projecting stock prices in public has always had bad Karma associated with it... until now.

Elon suffers from an odd form of under promise and over deliver...  $420 was way far away, Sounded like an impossible promise... until it was a tiny spec in the rear view mirror... 
 

So the Tesla is no ordinary car... The company is no ordinary car company... The stock has no ordinary stock performance... it is immeasurable by the traditions of PE ratios... incomparable to other similar companies making similar products...  

The safety benefits alone, incorporated in the Tesla cars are impressive... the Media is at a loss of how to cover technology...

For fun, watch any SpaceX launch where they share as many details as they possibly can... try to stay on top of each step in the schedule... the timing of each step, why it needs to be there, what is done, what is next... why certain things can’t be shown... (customer said so...)

So the satellite gets launched into space... on target speed, on target altitude, right on time... while watching the main screen, the other screen shows the reusable rocket booster landing on a drone ship, dead center of the deck... two other parts of the Rocket...aka fairings land in nets above two other drone ships...

These parts all get reused again.... amazing Space economics...
 

Compare that to traditional Boeing Rocketry... the last one didn’t share any of the trajectory or launch data... I watched it on TV...  it Was obvious something was wrong when the Rocket was supposed to launch and was still on screen for ten more minutes.... The pretty girl specifically said the launch window is narrow, it has to be off the ground by... 9:30am(?).   She looked intelligent right up until that moment she was standing with nothing to say in front of a Rocket that looked ready to go...

Then they launched it anyways... to meet a target that was 10 minutes past gone... the Rocket never got into the proper orbit... Whoever’s payload that was can be retrieved from the bottom of the ocean if they would like to go get it....

Hey.... wait a minute.... is that the same Boeing company with a programming error.... as the 737Max?
 

If you were going to ride into space on a Rocket.... would it be a Boeing Rocket launched like it was still 1969?

Or an Elon Musk Rocket that has literally been space tested and flown a few times before you got on board?

 

The modern world is moving faster by the day... 

Hold on tight... it’s going to be a bumpy ride...
 

PP thoughts only, all stuff I saw on television....

Best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

Bob Lutz is brilliant... a bit wacky lately...

Battery Day is coming...

The traditions that are falling quickly...

1) Going to a car dealer to buy a car... in NJ, Nissan has an app for that... they bring the car to you... Post pandemic NJ...

2) The fuel companies are also explaining their profits are starting to wane.... with so many EVs coming on line... fun time have begun... it’s Q2 earning season... in the mid pandemic fin world...

3) Tesla, today, announced their fourth profitable quarter in a row...

Elon Musk is brilliant...always been wacky... flame throwers, designer shorts for the shorts, weed smoking during a podcast... projected stock price to go to 420 to match a traditional weed smoking afternoon time of 4:20... CEOs Projecting stock prices in public has always had bad Karma associated with it... until now.

Elon suffers from an odd form of under promise and over deliver...  $420 was way far away, Sounded like an impossible promise... until it was a tiny spec in the rear view mirror... 
 

So the Tesla is no ordinary car... The company is no ordinary car company... The stock has no ordinary stock performance... it is immeasurable by the traditions of PE ratios... incomparable to other similar companies making similar products...  

The safety benefits alone, incorporated in the Tesla cars are impressive... the Media is at a loss of how to cover technology...

For fun, watch any SpaceX launch where they share as many details as they possibly can... try to stay on top of each step in the schedule... the timing of each step, why it needs to be there, what is done, what is next... why certain things can’t be shown... (customer said so...)

So the satellite gets launched into space... on target speed, on target altitude, right on time... while watching the main screen, the other screen shows the reusable rocket booster landing on a drone ship, dead center of the deck... two other parts of the Rocket...aka fairings land in nets above two other drone ships...

These parts all get reused again.... amazing Space economics...
 

Compare that to traditional Boeing Rocketry... the last one didn’t share any of the trajectory or launch data... I watched it on TV...  it Was obvious something was wrong when the Rocket was supposed to launch and was still on screen for ten more minutes.... The pretty girl specifically said the launch window is narrow, it has to be off the ground by... 9:30am(?).   She looked intelligent right up until that moment she was standing with nothing to say in front of a Rocket that looked ready to go...

Then they launched it anyways... to meet a target that was 10 minutes past gone... the Rocket never got into the proper orbit... Whoever’s payload that was can be retrieved from the bottom of the ocean if they would like to go get it....

Hey.... wait a minute.... is that the same Boeing company with a programming error.... as the 737Max?
 

If you were going to ride into space on a Rocket.... would it be a Boeing Rocket launched like it was still 1969?

Or an Elon Musk Rocket that has literally been space tested and flown a few times before you got on board?

 

The modern world is moving faster by the day... 

Hold on tight... it’s going to be a bumpy ride...
 

PP thoughts only, all stuff I saw on television....

Best regards,

-a-

Anthony, dont believe everything you read on the internet  Yea, Im a Tesla fan boy that used the same tactic to own one that I did for my Garmin 430. buy stock in the company and let the stock appreciation pay for it. I did this to both after researching and find out they had 1) best in class products, 2) hyper growth industries 3) arrogant competitors. Anytime I find a company that has this going, Ill invest personally. Do not take my advice, as your risk tolerances will be different. Free Tesla's are good