66' M20E Instrument Panel

[00-Negative]

On 7/12/2020 at 5:58 PM, Nukemzzz said:

So close. So close. After all this planning and making things tidy so it will all go together i find now that the lord panel bushings are sagging under the weight of all this mechanical gage crap and the DG is hitting even though I went through great pains to get it to clear. I’m really curious how others have managed to actually make this work. Even if I trim some away it’s going to sag more and be hitting again in a year. This gage assembly is just too damn heavy. 

I am going to change my panel to a conventional layout. My current panel is original and it's awful (attached below). Wondering if you used the Lord rubber isolators or went without and what, if any,  problems you've had with either :panel sagging with the mounts, or instrument damage without the mounts. Thanks.

-- David 

[TheAv8r]

35 minutes ago, 00-Negative said:

I am going to change my panel to a conventional layout. My current panel is original and it's awful (attached below). Wondering if you used the Lord rubber isolators or went without and what, if any,  problems you've had with either :panel sagging with the mounts, or instrument damage without the mounts. Thanks.

-- David 

I have a 65E and redid my panel to a flush, 1-piece panel which I highly recommend, it really cleans things up and modernizes the panel. I have dual G5s, but there were no issues with the instruments changing to not have the left side jutting out. 

[47U]

1 hour ago, 00-Negative said:

Wondering if you used the Lord rubber isolators or went without and what, if any,  problems you've had with either :panel sagging with the mounts, or instrument damage without the mounts.

Hard to see in this picture, but LASAR sold me a panel mount kit.  It included the ‘wedge’ to fill in the gap on the radio stack, standoffs, isolators, and three ‘cups’ which the bottom isolators sit in.  The cups keep the isolators from sagging.  On the top mounts, I put the isolators on the aircraft substructure, then the standoffs to the new panel.  Not sure if that makes a difference, though.

[DCarlton]

42 minutes ago, 47U said:

Hard to see in this picture, but LASAR sold me a panel mount kit.  It included the ‘wedge’ to fill in the gap on the radio stack, standoffs, isolators, and three ‘cups’ which the bottom isolators sit in.  The cups keep the isolators from sagging.  On the top mounts, I put the isolators on the aircraft substructure, then the standoffs to the new panel.  Not sure if that makes a difference, though.

If I understand correctly...  those standoffs look pretty long.  What are they making room for?  Or are they just eliminating the tilt of the panel?   My old Turn Coordinator likes to be vertical so it has a wedge.  My vacuum DG with heading bug output is the longest thing in my original panel and it's a monster to fit in the space with the vacuum hoses but doable.  Those cups sound like a good thing.  

[DCarlton]

1 hour ago, TheAv8r said:

I have a 65E and redid my panel to a flush, 1-piece panel which I highly recommend, it really cleans things up and modernizes the panel. I have dual G5s, but there were no issues with the instruments changing to not have the left side jutting out. 

So tempting to ask who, how much and how long but I know it was a lot and took a long time.  Very nice.  Do you have the one piece sloped windshield mod or can you still get to the backside from the top?  

 

[47U]

3 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

f I understand correctly...  those standoffs look pretty long.  What are they making room for?  Or are they just eliminating the tilt of the panel?

The upper standoffs are long.  They are sized to remove the bend in the original panel.  After installation of the new panel, I measured the panel angle (aircraft leveled first) and it came out to an 8 degree tilt, a standard spec available in steam gauge gyros.

 

[TheAv8r]

25 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

So tempting to ask who, how much and how long but I know it was a lot and took a long time.  Very nice.  Do you have the one piece sloped windshield mod or can you still get to the backside from the top?  

 

There was a lot of work done at the same time, so it was down for 3.5 months all-in-all. The one piece panel all-in for parts and labor was $3600. I was going to have to have new panels done regardless, to cut new panels, powdercoat and install it was $2200, so $1400 delta to greatly improve the look and flow.

[DCarlton]

31 minutes ago, TheAv8r said:

There was a lot of work done at the same time, so it was down for 3.5 months all-in-all. The one piece panel all-in for parts and labor was $3600. I was going to have to have new panels done regardless, to cut new panels, powdercoat and install it was $2200, so $1400 delta to greatly improve the look and flow.

I need to leave CA.  It would be 3-4 times as much here.  :/

[Matthew P]

On 5/26/2020 at 9:00 AM, Nukemzzz said:

So while the engine, motor mount, nose gear, control cables, and flap actuator are all out, I decided that since I've already dug a massive hole...why not keep digging?

I'd like to start work on two more things:

1. Replace the co-pilot panel

2.  Install an ADSB equipped Transponder

See the current state of the panel below.  Note the EDM-730 in the top right.  I put it there to quickly get me back in the air with plans to clean things up later...well...the engine is out for at least another month so I might as well do it now.  There is also a TB instrument in the glove box...useless there.  

I also need a transponder and so I might as well go with ADSB.  I'm leaning towards getting a GARMIN GTX 335 ADS-B TRANSPONDER WITH GPS + GAE 12 ENCODER / MULTI CHARGER PROMO KIT FOR CERTIFIED AIRCRAFT.  I don't know much about Avionics... would you agree this is a good one for me?  

My overall plan:

1. Keep the RPM and Manf/fuel gages in their current location.  I like the steam gages and they work fine.
2. Shift the 730 over to the left top so it is closer.  Remove the engine monitor warning light for now and move it to Pilot side later.
3. Put the transponder right below it to save space in the middle stack for a GPS at a later date.
4. Put the Audio Panel to the right of the EDM
5. Put USB plugs somewhere or keep cigarette lighters. (the latter is easier since both are already wired and ready to go.
6. Maybe put an i-Pad mount in the open space that this has created.  Or put a really cool Mooney Logo and drop the needed placards (I think many are missing) over here.
7. Put all the add on breakers above the factor breaker location (You can see several in the glove box area, what you maybe did notice is a couple of rouge ones on the right side in random locations.)
8. Some day I'll re-do the pilot panel, move the TB over to the pilot side at that time, replace the Narco radio with another KX so it's smaller, and insert a GPS unit in the stack to move back towards IFR capabiltiy.

My plan is to have a local shop cut the co-pilot panel for me, however, I don't have good resources for making my own engineering drawings (Even though I'm an engineer)... My day job company uses Creo (Pro-E) and I no longer need the software in my current role so I don't have it any longer.  My main home PC is a MacBook, but I do have an older laptop that can maybe run Solidworks.

I think the easiest route for me is to use the EAA provided Solidworks.  Does anyone have the SolidWorks cad file to get me started? Much of it I could measure, however, the upper right portion of the panel isn't easy to define since is a sweeping curve.  Hopefully one of you have already plotted this out.

Or... maybe I can contract one of you to make the CAD file for me?

Lastly... I'm not sure what I would need to do to mount the Transponder case.  I think it needs to screw in from the sides at the panel so I'd need provisions for this behind the panel but I'm not sure.  Thoughts on this?

 

I figure if I start with this it will be a trial run for doing the pilot side later.

Thanks for your help and guidance!

 

 

While the engine mount is out, get the steel gussets welded in so that you can eliminate the reoccurring engine mount AD..

 

[Aerodon]

On 3/30/2025 at 10:17 AM, 47U said:

The upper standoffs are long.  They are sized to remove the bend in the original panel.  After installation of the new panel, I measured the panel angle (aircraft leveled first) and it came out to an 8 degree tilt, a standard spec available in steam gauge gyros.

 

 

 

Are you saying tilted forward like the radios it is 8 degrees, or tilted back like you have it is 8 degrees?

Using standoffs and rubber mounts is a nice way of taking the angle, but I would firmly mount the bottom ones to make the panel rigid for the G5's?

Aerodon

 

[47U]

3 hours ago, Aerodon said:

Are you saying tilted forward like the radios it is 8 degrees, or tilted back like you have it is 8 degrees?

Using standoffs and rubber mounts is a nice way of taking the angle, but I would firmly mount the bottom ones to make the panel rigid for the G5's?

Aerodon

 

Yes, the top of the panel is tilted forward.  It looks like it’s tilted backwards because the center radio stack is so tilted so much more forward.  (And, I might not be able to hold a camera square with the world.)

The bottom rubber mounts are quite solid in the cups (the cups were part of the LASAR panel mount kit).  But, I understand your point.  I’m guessing the gyros back in the day need some vibration protection, hence the rubber mounts?  

Although, a couple months ago a J model owner on the field asked me to help troubleshoot some intermittent ‘electrical arcing’ he was seeing under the pilot’s panel, occurring most commonly at full power on takeoff roll.  His rubber mounts were so deteriorated that the panel sagged enough that one terminal screws on a switch, a little longer than all the others terminal screws, was arcing on the panel support structural tube.  I went to the J model IPC to get the part number and counted like 18 (?) or something rubber mounts on the J model panel.  These rubber panel mounts should be listed on your time change schedule.  Like with engine isolators and landing gear donuts.

[MB65E]

On 3/30/2025 at 8:07 AM, TheAv8r said:

I have a 65E and redid my panel to a flush, 1-piece panel which I highly recommend, it really cleans things up and modernizes the panel. I have dual G5s, but there were no issues with the instruments changing to not have the left side jutting out. 

Wow, that’s really clean and nice.

-Matt