M20F LED Nav/Beacon/Position lights

[hmasing]

I have a 1968 M20F with the top coffee grinder, and a belly strobe.  Nav lights on each wingtip, and a tail light in the back.

I'd like to eliminate as many of those as possible, and go LED - I'd also like to be seen from the International Space Station.

What have you good folks done to replace/eliminate lights with LED's?  I'd love to be able to just go with wingtip and tail lights if at all possible.

My plane is in for annual right now, for the next couple weeks, and all the panels are open so now's the time to add wiring if needed.  Thanks!

[carusoam]

Start with going to the Whelen website... they have a nice graphic that explained the requirements for lighting based on the year of construction of your plane...

Whelen is similar to Garmin... the make a great product, that they are very proud of...  

There are other manufacturers that make some even better products... of which MSers have supplied some awesome pics...

Finding all of that probably requires using the search function...

If you are the type of person that is looking for a bargain...we have a couple of people that buy in bulk and sell off at a decent discount...

Then there are the how do you feel about it questions... taxi lights vs. landing lights or a combo light....

And some lights also include your 2020 status... do you need an ADSB solution?

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[jetdriven]

4 hours ago, hmasing said:

I have a 1968 M20F with the top coffee grinder, and a belly strobe.  Nav lights on each wingtip, and a tail light in the back.

I'd like to eliminate as many of those as possible, and go LED - I'd also like to be seen from the International Space Station.

What have you good folks done to replace/eliminate lights with LED's?  I'd love to be able to just go with wingtip and tail lights if at all possible.

My plane is in for annual right now, for the next couple weeks, and all the panels are open so now's the time to add wiring if needed.  Thanks!

I did Whelen Orion 600s and the 500 tail nav/strobe. They really didn’t fit the plane and it took some work to make it go.  The 650s, however, bolt right on. You have to pull a sync wire to both wingtips. And a sync and a strobe wire to the tail.  

Expensive and bright af..

[Prior owner]

I shopped around for a while, and Spruce seems to have the best deal on LED nav bulbs- they have a set of three ( red, green, clear)  for $60

Wing & tail LED bulb set

[GDGR]

I jumped the Canadian gun, and went with the Skybeacon on the left wing, and am now in the waiting process for the TSO of the the skylight for the right. 
Went this route for the ADS-B reason (Thanks Canada, for deciding to not be like the US and decide we need 1090 like the rest of the world... <Insert Sarcasm>... and make me have to find a new ADS-B solution later), and the fact I didn't have wingtip strobes on my 74F. Once the SkyLight is available, That problem will be solved. 

Also removed the coffee grinder, and installed an Aveo RedBaron XP. It's sleek looking, and I"m pretty sure I blind people on the ground with it while in flight. 

Landing light was also swapped out for an LED Whelen PAR46

[1964-M20E]

I just put the Aveo Engineering Ultra Galatia 3 in 1 wingtip lights on mine and I like them.  I "won" them in the silent auction last year at the Mooney Summit.  Aveo Engineering donated them to the summit.

I have a Wheelen strobe on the belly and standard tail light.  I don't have any immediate plans to remove them.

[SantosDumont]

You don’t have to run the sync wire for the Whelen 650s.  I didn’t on mine with the navs and taillight and they all fire at the same time (they are wired to the same switch). 

[slowflyin]

12 hours ago, SantosDumont said:

You don’t have to run the sync wire for the Whelen 650s.  I didn’t on mine with the navs and taillight and they all fire at the same time (they are wired to the same switch). 

Did the same but I found they don't stay in sync very long.   Not an issue for as I think the randomness actually makes the AC more visible.  

[Bob E]

Pilot Coyote found a great deal on the position lights.  I paid about a Benjamin more on Amazon for the exact same thing:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0721FTBPX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1   These lights are excellent.

Note:  The original Mooney red and green position lights (at least for the M20C) are flattened and metal-coated on one side; the LEDs are not, but the LED versions work just fine.  Putting a red light under the red lens and a green light under the green lens produces an amazingly bright, pure color.

The rear position light is almost as bright as my old landing light

I don't have strobes; threee years ago I replaced my belly coffee grinder with a Whelen 71080 series LED beacon.  It's red and doesn't flash like a strobe; it mimics a rotating beacon by a dimming/brightening action.

[jaylw314]

7 hours ago, Bob E said:

Pilot Coyote found a great deal on the position lights.  I paid about a Benjamin more on Amazon for the exact same thing:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0721FTBPX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1   These lights are excellent.

Note:  The original Mooney red and green position lights (at least for the M20C) are flattened and metal-coated on one side; the LEDs are not, but the LED versions work just fine.  Putting a red light under the red lens and a green light under the green lens produces an amazingly bright, pure color.

The rear position light is almost as bright as my old landing light

I don't have strobes; threee years ago I replaced my belly coffee grinder with a Whelen 71080 series LED beacon.  It's red and doesn't flash like a strobe; it mimics a rotating beacon by a dimming/brightening action.

Hey, uh, just a reminder that position lights have a TSO connected with them (and their night flight requirement), so those probably wouldn't pass the ramp check test.  Landing lights don't have a TSO, that's why we mostly don't care about swapping them with any random LED's lamps out there, but landing lights and beacons are different.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if strobes lamps have a TSO.  Does anyone know off hand?

[Ragsf15e]

I’ve got these https://aeroleds.com/pulsar-n-series-certified/

previous owner did it.  Strobes integrated with nav lights on wingtip.  White light on tail.  No beacons.  Separately, whelen led landing light.  

It all works good and looks great.

[Bob E]

15 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Hey, uh, just a reminder that position lights have a TSO connected with them (and their night flight requirement), so those probably wouldn't pass the ramp check test.  Landing lights don't have a TSO, that's why we mostly don't care about swapping them with any random LED's lamps out there, but landing lights and beacons are different.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if strobes lamps have a TSO.  Does anyone know off hand?

I think jaylw314's cautionary reminder is well-taken.  Some context:

FAR 23.1391, which covered position light design, no longer exists since the rewrite on Part 23: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...80b2bb506ebc9&mc=true&node=pt14.1.23&rgn=div5   In any case, Part 23 covers airworthiness standards for aircraft certification.

The relevant FAR is 91.205(c)(2):  An aircraft must be equipped with “approved position lights” for night flight.  (Note:  not “approved position light bulbs.”)  Part 91, the General Operating and Flight Rules, contains the basic equipment requirements, maintenance/inspection requirements, flight rules, etc. and places responsibility on the owner/operator.

There’s also 14 CFR Ch. I, Appendix A to Part 43 – Major Alterations, Major Repairs, and Preventive Maintenance.  Paragraph (c)(17) states that “Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and landing lights” is preventive maintenance, and paragraph (c)(30) allows the pilot-owner to do preventive maintenance. 

So, may I simply replace my old incandescent position light bulbs with LED bulbs of the same type?

Maybe, but not so fast.  There’s the issue of electromagnetic interference.  The Aero-Lites position light installation brochure refers to FAR 23.1383, which no longer exists, BUT it also states that you have to test for EMI if you have any HSI compass components within 24 inches of the bulb or the wire powering it, by doing a compass swing with the light switched on and noting any compass position error.  Regulation or no regulation, this is a sensible precaution.  

That’s the case for me; I have a G5 HSI, which requires a magnetometer near the end of the wing.  The avionics shop that installed it did that check.

By the way, the “LED position light” issue seems to be a topic of endless debate on aircraft owner forums. 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Bob E said:

By the way, the “LED position light” issue seems to be a topic of endless debate on aircraft owner forums. 

That's because new LED bulbs are crazy cheap, but new LED position lights with bulbs are crazy-stupid expensive!

[jetdriven]

22 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Hey, uh, just a reminder that position lights have a TSO connected with them (and their night flight requirement), so those probably wouldn't pass the ramp check test.  Landing lights don't have a TSO, that's why we mostly don't care about swapping them with any random LED's lamps out there, but landing lights and beacons are different.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if strobes lamps have a TSO.  Does anyone know off hand?

He says they are “TSO approved” but they are NOT TSO’d

[jaylw314]

35 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

He says they are “TSO approved” but they are NOT TSO’d

I have no idea what that means?

[jetdriven]

4 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I have no idea what that means?

It means the LED navstrobe’s are not TSO. 

[jaylw314]

6 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

It means the LED navstrobe’s are not TSO. 

Oh, I see, you were talking about strobes, thanks.  I think I was confusing myself