Hypoxia...

[scottfromiowa]

Listen to recent tape (27 minutes) on Cirrus pilot and wife.  Everything you read about hypoxia Euphoria, sense of well being...It's ALL THERE.  That commercial pilot is a HERO.  Glad it had a positive ending.  Controller did a good job, but makes you really question "pilot in command".  Controller suggested...commercial pilot stated "You are hypoxic" you NEED to get down to a lower altitude...Hope he is there (commercial pilot) if I ever get into that type of situation.  Pilot needed to be controlled based on his decision-making level of incapacitation.  The system was restraining the controller (IMO) from ordering the pilot to go a certain direction and altitude.  The commercial pilot had no such restraint.  He did an excellent job of directing and being firm without getting into a confrontation with the pilot...

[aerobat95]

Do you have a link to this?  I would like to hear it.  I have been lucky in that I have had training to learn the signs of hypoxia for me.  In each individual it is different and it is really valuable to know your signs.  So many factors can affect when and how hopoxia impacts you.  For us pilots its valuable to not smoke and to be in good cardiovascular shape. 

[N601RX]

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/2011-05-17/ 

It starts 3 or 4 minutes into the tape

One Whiskey Alpha

[N601RX]

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/2011-05-17/ 

It starts 3 or 4 minutes into the tape

One Whiskey Alpha

 

[WardHolbrook]

Quote: aerobat95

Do you have a link to this?  I would like to hear it.  I have been lucky in that I have had training to learn the signs of hypoxia for me.  In each individual it is different and it is really valuable to know your signs.  So many factors can affect when and how hopoxia impacts you.  For us pilots its valuable to not smoke and to be in good cardiovascular shape. 

[jax88]

Also, good argument for the "pinch hitter" training for our co-pilots.

[N601RX]

After listening to the tape and then doing some resesarch online it seems possible that this plane may have been being flown by a Doctor who was a member of THE FLYING PHYSICIAN association whose purpose is to raise awareness of stuff like this.  

The plane was owned by a corperation and when you google the owner of the corperation he is shown as a DR.  The cities and everything seem match, but there is no way of knowing if he was the person flying the plane on that trip. 

[FlyDave]

Here's another Hypoxia event in a Lear owned by Kalitta Cargo. This guy is barely there..

"Unable to control altitude"

"Unable to contol airspeed"

""Unable to contol heading"

"Other than that, everything A-OK"

Yikes!!!!!

[sleepingsquirrel]

" The training prices vary, but it can be had little to no cost (except for the travel expenses). Do a search on hypoxia training or altitude chamber training and you'll find several options."

So, is it possible to simulate hypoxia by consuming a 6 pak? Could I have my bar buddies give a test or commands like :

1. Stand up

2. touch you nose with your index finger

3. walk this line toe to heel

No , nnnnnnno different test, I always suspected hypoxia was something like alcohol induced stupor just easier to recover?

[M20F]

I reccomnd having a Oximeter (http://www.amazon.com/Finger-Pulse-Oximeter-SM-110-Carry-Wrist/dp/B003TJH3LI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306786546&sr=8-1) if you intend to fly high.  Getting a small bottle as a back up source is a relatively small investment as well.

 

Hypoxia and carbon monoxide kill far more people than they should and are very cheap/easy to identify.

 

[Steve65E-NC]

I thought the controller did an outstanding job.  Wonder why he did not declare an emergency for the pilot and thus unload his  other control responsibilities.  The couple was dead several times there and had no idea.  Why to have some level of training for spouse.

[scottfromiowa]

I agree that the controller was outstanding.  i thought the same thing regarding his continued workload during the event.  he and the commercial pilot were fantastic.  The spouse also did great considering her stress and no doubt concern for her husband.  i agree that there were several key times that actions and persistant instruction favorably impacted the outcome.  I look forward to learning more about what failed.  Isn't pulse ox required?

[aerobat95]

Quote: M20F

I reccomnd having a Oximeter (http://www.amazon.com/Finger-Pulse-Oximeter-SM-110-Carry-Wrist/dp/B003TJH3LI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306786546&sr=8-1) if you intend to fly high.  Getting a small bottle as a back up source is a relatively small investment as well.

 

Hypoxia and carbon monoxide kill far more people than they should and are very cheap/easy to identify.

 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: aerobat95

[N601RX]

The training is basically free.  Just get your CFI or Safety Pilot and go with you.  Give them oxygen, but leave yours off.  Add a video camera if you want.

[piperpainter]

Quote: N601RX

The training is basically free.  Just get your CFI or Safety Pilot and go with you.  Give them oxygen, but leave yours off.  Add a video camera if you want.

[aerobat95]

Check this link out....I agree with piperpainter as far as doing it in a controlled environment on the ground. 

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/pt_06272005_web.pdf

 

[N601RX]

Quote: aerobat95

Check this link out....I agree with piperpainter as far as doing it in a controlled environment on the ground. 

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/pt_06272005_web.pdf

 

[sleepingsquirrel]

I see a market for a great training aid here. Simply a plastic dry cleaning devoid of all cautions and warnings commonly seen . Instead it is sold with instructions something along the lines of:

1. Place bag over head

2. Breathe normally

3. Gather loose bag around neck and tie loosely with the provided string

4. With the pencil and paper provided write: "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy"

5. Don't go toward the light

The only caution necessary is that the safety person is not the beneficiary to your life insurance policy

Disclaimer: I actually ripped this off from my companies retirement plan. It comes in the mail with instructions similar to the above except it simply states; "Here is your retirement plan". Follow the instructions , welcome to retirement

The real disclaimer: Don't try this a home , at work , or in your car this is just in product development

[piperpainter]

I tell you what its worth your life....if that makes a difference. I am lucky to have been to this class 2 times now. (we get refreshers every 5 years) and its great to know what my symptons of hypoxia are. Check this video out on youtube...its part 1 of 5...it'll take you about 30-40 min of watching but it just shows what can happen to a pilot that doesn't know or understand his symtoms of hypoxia. Do you know yours? My body gets warm, my feet and tingle, vision starts to get hazy and its just all down hill from there!

video very tragic:

[Jerry 5TJ]

I've taken the course.   I took it at Beale AFB in CA some years ago.   See the brochure (pdf file) higher in this thread -- the course is offered at about 13 sites in the US.    Nominal cost of $28 or some silly fee like that, I forget exactly what it cost now.    You need only a valid Class III medical to participate.

The experience is worth ten times the cost -- it is invaluable if you ever fly high enough to need supplemental O2.

 

 

 

[WardHolbrook]

Quote: piperpainter

I tell you what its worth your life....if that makes a difference. I am lucky to have been to this class 2 times now. (we get refreshers every 5 years) and its great to know what my symptons of hypoxia are. Check this video out on youtube...its part 1 of 5...it'll take you about 30-40 min of watching but it just shows what can happen to a pilot that doesn't know or understand his symtoms of hypoxia. Do you know yours? My body gets warm, my feet and tingle, vision starts to get hazy and its just all down hill from there!

video very tragic:

[Awful_Charlie]

I tried to find a place to do the hypobaric chamber experience in the UK and kept getting brickwalled - the only places that had them were the military, and they didn't offer them to civvies due to liability :-(

However, rather than carry a spare bottle, on reaching cruise altitude I set the altitude pre-select to 8000' and the descent to 800fpm.  I know that at normal cruise power it can hold this rate of descent just about in the green without pulling any power off. 

The reason for this is I reckon I can hit the two buttons on the KAS297 a lot faster and easier than donning a alternative mask/cannula, or swapping bottles, and I can likewise get a passenger/copilot to do this more easily too.  If 8000' would be below MSA, then I change the pre-select to be MSA, and the heading bug to be in a direction the MSA is not increasing.  That means it takes three bottons to be pressed if/when it hits the fan.  It is not perfect, but other than having a P2 on a second O2 supply, or a second supply with an auto sensing detector and changeover mechanism, IMHO it is as good as it is going to get.

Ben

[robert14]

I found my max altitude one evening during a practice IFR flight, at night, at 10,000 ft. After an hour of hooded flight, I began having trouble maintaining my altitude and heading. My instructor began nagging me. His nagging did not help. I struggled for about 10 minutes trying to maintain heading and altitude while blaming it on the weather. It only got worse. Then, my fingers starting starting tingling. I realized at that moment that I was experiencing hypoxia. I alerted my instructor who took over and immediately requested ATC permission for a quick descent to MEA, 6000 ft at the time. My symptoms continued to grow worse during the descent with general weakness, sweating, tingling fingers, and nausea. As we approached 6000 ft, the symptoms quickly went away and I resumed the flight as POC. I was lucky I had an instructor with me. My doctor claims that your max altitude and time at altitude are a function of your health and age. I am healthy and 64. I now use the O2D2 requlator and an O2 bottle strapped to the back of my seat whenever I fly above 6000 ft.

[mooneygirl]

We purchased a pulse ox and have supplemental O2 available.  On night flights we use at 8000 and above.  I found that with the O2, I got to the destination feeling more refreshed and no headache.  Listening to the recording is just mind-blowing.  Yes a Pinch-Hitter course is a must.

Most chapters of 99s [female pilots] offer a Pinch Hitter course.  Otherwise, practice with your partner.  I even taught my 11 year old what to do.  Practice practice practice with them.

How about simulator experience too?  Can't hurt.

We are lucky, most times two pilots aboard the Mooney.