Ovation 280 HP Flat Rating

[Kelly K]

Researching a circa 2000 ovation vs TLS/Bravo. I realize the IO 550 is flat rated at 280 HP although it is in reality a 300 HP motor, and the new G model is rated at 310.  Is the flat rating accomplished through a governor that only allows the throttle body to be opened 75%, or how is it de-tuned?  Also, is there a mod or update that allows for limited 100% power during climb out?  I understand that heat is the big issue, and that the cowl venting is limited for the big IO 550.  Just curious as to how Mooney solved this issue with the newer airframes. 

[Niko182]

5 minutes ago, Kelly K said:

Researching a circa 2000 ovation vs TLS/Bravo. I realize the IO 550 is flat rated at 280 HP although it is in reality a 300 HP motor, and the new G model is rated at 310.  Is the flat rating accomplished through a governor that only allows the throttle body to be opened 75%, or how is it de-tuned?  Also, is there a mod or update that allows for limited 100% power during climb out?  I understand that heat is the big issue, and that the cowl venting is limited for the big IO 550.  Just curious as to how Mooney solved this issue with the newer airframes. 

The ovation and eagle can be easily upgraded to 310 hp. Its just a simple stc and a governor change. Its harder if you have a 2 blade prop. Part of the stc requires the 3 blade top prop.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Kelly...

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from....

But, the 280 and 310 are somewhat measured the same way...

What controls this max deliverable power is the rpm the engine is allowed to operate at...

The 310hp (g) or (n) version have redline prop speed at 2700rpm, the 280hp (g) has a 2500 rpm redline...

So no, the throttle is wide open for both... the fuel flow is adjusted to meet the requirements of each engine.

The 310hp does everything the 280hp does, only much better in T/O and climb, and slightly better turning 2550rpm in cruise.... because you can.

100% power from take-off to leveling off at altitude is available... but FF and CHT May need some adjustment depending on OATs... 1-3gph extra provides adequate additional cooling according to some...

For fun facts... look up how much power can be derived from an IO550 in the experimental version when the turn the rpm up a bit more.... a number upwards of 500-550hp?

FF increases faster than Airspeed does as you get up towards 200kts....

If your follow-up question is... ‘is it worth it?’...

yes, yes it is!

As far as the Bravo goes... the lower hp is real... the longer T/O run is noticeable... but the turbo ops is real too... don your O2 and climb into the FLs...  FF is real too, but cruise speeds and tail winds are real too. 

I wanted to be a turbo pilot, but found my flights to be too short to make sense of the turbo...

PP thoughts only, not a mooney guru....

Best regards,

-a-

[gsengle]

I have the 280hp version. My io550 is approaching 2100 hours and going strong. Just put a Harzell top prop on it. Made a great difference in takeoff roll and climb. Didn’t opt for the 310 hp work. Why? I fly cruise at a maximum 24/24 lop. Still fast and very efficient. Why? My engine is maybe a little less stressed and this helped me get so deep into TBO with mostly original cylinders. Why? Because if the take off performance was much better it would only help me to launch from airports shorter than I’m willing to land at anyway. So 280hp I remain and I still can climb at 1000fpm at max gross around std conditions. I’m happy.


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[triple8s]

The TCM IO-550G gets 280hp by turning 2500rpm and only getting 21.3 -22.1 gph of fuel. Power, horsepower is generated by burning fuel, limit fuel, limit horsepower generated. Don't misinterpret my saying limit fuel what we are limiting is fuel AND air, air being limited by turning the engine slower. Wouldn't be a good idea to limit the fuel with the red knob, the air and fuel together at the proper stichiometric ratio. The same engine turning 2700 rpm (more air flow) and a higher fuel flow 25.6-27.3 yields 310hp. Same engine different power output by different fuel/rpm settings.

[Niko182]

The 280 needs more than 22. My eagle rated at 244 needs about 23gph. O1 and o2 need about 25 to 26 at full power. O3 needs 31gph at full power

[ilovecornfields]

First thing I did when I bought my Ovation was the 310 HP conversion. The first shop screwed it up (even though people here seem to act like that person walks on water) but I eventually found someone who knew what they were doing and adjusted the fuel flow and RPM correctly.

I’ve tried taking off with 2500 RPM instead of 2700 and there is a huge difference. I only run at 2700 RPM for about a minute every flight but when I was trying to get on top of a layer of ice or climb out of Flagstaff on July 4th I definitely didn’t regret getting the upgrade. 

[kmyfm20s]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

First thing I did when I bought my Ovation was the 310 HP conversion. The first shop screwed it up (even though people here seem to act like that person walks on water) but I eventually found someone who knew what they were doing and adjusted the fuel flow and RPM correctly.

I’ve tried taking off with 2500 RPM instead of 2700 and there is a huge difference. I only run at 2700 RPM for about a minute every flight but when I was trying to get on top of a layer of ice or climb out of Flagstaff on July 4th I definitely didn’t regret getting the upgrade. 

I think we must have gone to the same person.

[Niko182]

Whats a good shop to do the conversion? I plan on upgrading to 310 within the next year.

[Guest]

It’s not really a difficult job.  Your maintainer needs to be able to removed and reinstall the propeller governor, have the propeller manual and be able to adjust the blade pitch stop, and have the pressure gauges and manuals to adjust the fuel pump. Lastly, depending on model, install a new tachometer or reprogram the G1000 tachometer.

Clarence

Edited August 24, 2018 by M20Doc

[ilovecornfields]

5 hours ago, M20Doc said:

It’s not really a difficult job.  Your maintainer needs to be able to removed and reinstall the propeller governor, have the propeller manual and be able to adjust the blade pitch stop, and have the pressure gauges and manuals to adjust the fuel pump. Lastly, depending on model, install a new tachometer or reprogram the G1000 tachometer.

Clarence

I would agree that it doesn’t seem difficult if you know what you’re doing. Somehow the first MSC managed to screw it up. The MSC I took it to afterwards told me over the phone what he thought the problem was and then fixed both the prop and fuel flow in less than an hour. That’s why I flew over 600 miles to have my annual done this year!

[MIm20c]

6 hours ago, M20Doc said:

It’s not really a difficult job.  Your maintainer needs to be able to removed and reinstall the propeller governor, have the propeller manual and be able to adjust the blade pitch stop, and have the pressure gauges and manuals to adjust the fuel pump. Lastly, depending on model, install a new tachometer or reprogram the G1000 tachometer.

Clarence

Many shops, including some popular msc’s, are unwilling to increase FF to an acceptable level. However, I think it’s only a single screw adjustment that controls the max FF so not a reason to not use that service center. 

[ilovecornfields]

10 hours ago, MIm20c said:

Many shops, including some popular msc’s, are unwilling to increase FF to an acceptable level. However, I think it’s only a single screw adjustment that controls the max FF so not a reason to not use that service center. 

Getting the RPM wrong, setting the FF too low so the CHTs shot up too high, not doing any sort of test flight or test run, blaming the ferry pilot “for not noticing it was wrong” and then hanging up on me and refusing to do anything to “make it right” IS a reason not to use that service center. I have other reasons, but that was enough for me. The shop made it very clear that they had lots of other planes there and mine was not a priority. I have subsequently found a place where they actual seem to give a sh*t about me and my plane and they are the ones I make the checks out to now.

It must be nice to be so successful that you can treat customers that way. Don’t get me wrong, they were very nice until I pointed out what was wrong, then it was just excuses and blaming other people. I don’t expect anyone or any shop to be perfect, but I do except people to own up to their mistakes and try to make it right. 

[Niko182]

3 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Getting the RPM wrong, setting the FF too low so the CHTs shot up too high, not doing any sort of test flight or test run, blaming the ferry pilot “for not noticing it was wrong” and then hanging up on me and refusing to do anything to “make it right” IS a reason not to use that service center. I have other reasons, but that was enough for me. The shop made it very clear that they had lots of other planes there and mine was not a priority. I have subsequently found a place where they actual seem to give a sh*t about me and my plane and they are the ones I make the checks out to now.

It must be nice to be so successful that you can treat customers that way. Don’t get me wrong, they were very nice until I pointed out what was wrong, then it was just excuses and blaming other people. I don’t expect anyone or any shop to be perfect, but I do except people to own up to their mistakes and try to make it right. 

seems like fun times.

[bonal]

On August 23, 2018 at 8:44 PM, ilovecornfields said:

First thing I did when I bought my Ovation was the 310 HP conversion. The first shop screwed it up (even though people here seem to act like that person walks on water) but I eventually found someone who knew what they were doing and adjusted the fuel flow and RPM correctly.

I’ve tried taking off with 2500 RPM instead of 2700 and there is a huge difference. I only run at 2700 RPM for about a minute every flight but when I was trying to get on top of a layer of ice or climb out of Flagstaff on July 4th I definitely didn’t regret getting the upgrade. 

I don't think it would be inappropriate for you to mention what shop it was since you were very specific about the issues you had with them. We are all capable of forming our own opinion on many such matters so would not be like throwing them under a bus. First and foremost Mooney Space is all about information that can be beneficial to the rest of us. Anything that we as owners can share both good and bad can be helpful to others.

[Niko182]

9 minutes ago, bonal said:

I don't think it would be inappropriate for you to mention what shop it was since you were very specific about the issues you had with them. We are all capable of forming our own opinion on many such matters so would not be like throwing them under a bus. First and foremost Mooney Space is all about information that can be beneficial to the rest of us. Anything that we as owners can share both good and bad can be helpful to others.

especially considering you're not the only one here that seems to have that issue. seems like @kmyfm20s implied that he went to the same shop too.

[ilovecornfields]

14 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

especially considering you're not the only one here that seems to have that issue. seems like @kmyfm20s implied that he went to the same shop too.

 

[M016576]

On 8/23/2018 at 6:36 PM, Niko182 said:

The 280 needs more than 22. My eagle rated at 244 needs about 23gph. O1 and o2 need about 25 to 26 at full power. O3 needs 31gph at full power

IO-550A on the missile likes about 27.5 for its 300HP.

[Niko182]

2 minutes ago, M016576 said:

IO-550A on the missile likes about 27.5 for its 300HP.

i've seen a lot of posts that at least for the 310hp 550g it needs 31gph
instead of the recommended 28gph to keep the cylinders cool

[kmyfm20s]

3 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

 

Added my experience to this thread

[kmyfm20s]

My K factor is pretty spot on and I see between 28.6 and 29.3 GPH at sea level takeoff. It has worked well for me to manage CHT’s is some pretty nasty summer time temperatures we see in the California deserts. Some days I still need to use the low boost pump. APS used to recommend 10% of rated Hp but I think they decreased that recommendation. Past 29.3 I would see some performance decrease on takeoff and flooding problems on landing and roll out. 

[TexasFlyer]

On 8/25/2018 at 11:54 PM, kmyfm20s said:

My K factor is pretty spot on and I see between 28.6 and 29.3 GPH at sea level takeoff. It has worked well for me to manage CHT’s is some pretty nasty summer time temperatures we see in the California deserts. Some days I still need to use the low boost pump. APS used to recommend 10% of rated Hp but I think they decreased that recommendation. Past 29.3 I would see some performance decrease on takeoff and flooding problems on landing and roll out. 

I adjusted the FF on my IO-520 to 29.6 GPH on takeoff and, YES, most of the year that's too rich but, on hot summer days, it's very useful to keep all 6 CHT below 400.  If I need it, I use it.  Just because I can get that FF doesn't mean I do on every takeoff.  I'm a believer in "target EGT."   I use the big red knob!  There isn't a valid reason to got full rich on final approach so I have no engine flooding problems on landing roll out.  Read all about Target EGT and more at www.advancedpilot.com.

targetegt.pps

Edited December 12, 2018 by TexasFlyer

[philiplane]

The 310 HP IO-550 specs call for 27-28 GPH at 2700 RPM. You can go up to 29, but going to 31 will guarantee an over rich condition unless you are at sea level on a January morning in Alaska.

Edited December 13, 2018 by philiplane

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Texas Flyer.

-and-

Great input Phillip!

Best regards,

-a-