Jeev Posted July 19, 2020 Author Report Posted July 19, 2020 Unfortunately this is true. I have 6 autopilots on order for other airframes and Have been quoted 6-9 weeks 9 being the norm. Frustrating that such a great product is being stifled by bad management. 1 Quote
NJMac Posted July 19, 2020 Report Posted July 19, 2020 Unfortunately this is true. I have 6 autopilots on order for other airframes and Have been quoted 6-9 weeks 9 being the norm. Frustrating that such a great product is being stifled by bad management. And at the same time, Garmin keeps running full steam ahead..... To the victors go the spoils I guess. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk Quote
Navi Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 1:41 PM, Bob - S50 said: You didn't read that very carefully. Even if the autopilot is OFF, if I am above 200' AGL and I let my speed drop below 65 KIAS, the pitch servo will turn on and apply nose down force to the yoke in order to prevent a potential stall situation. WHAAAAAAAAT!??? Absolutely NOT on MY aircraft! That's the last thing I want it to do! That's a "failure mode" on other autopilots.. (1) Not doing something when you want it to... and... (2) The "autopilot doing something you don't want it to" So.... WHAT do you do to get this thing to stay off the yoke? Pull the breaker? Envelope protection is a great thing when wanted/needed, but not a great thing when you cannot turn it off. I did not know this... thanks! N Quote
Navi Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 12 hours ago, FlySafe said: I came across this recent thread on Pilots of America. Appears the frustration with TruTrak/Aerocruze100 wait not limited to Mooney owners, even some on the AML are experiencing problems with BendixKing supply chain and communications. I do not know how common these issues are for other Aerocruze purchasers but I found it interesting as our community continues to wait for news on this autopilot. https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/problems-wit-aerocruze-100-install-lack-thereof.126381/ Not good... The Covid thing is messing up a lot of supply lines . I had to search hard for a new (in stock) stackable washer and dryer last month and got the last pair . . Orders were a least 8 weeks out and uncertain at that. (Going without a washer for 8 weeks or more in this house is NOT negotiable!) Parts and raw materials availability for making parts are drying up. Getting worse by the week. (Business hat on again) I suspect BK is in a parts availability mess. They had to source new suppliers for the TT/BY AP system, as TT made many parts "in house" for years. This source went away with the acquisition. They were working on this when the Covid hit, and are probably caught without new or backup parts inventory. (Or people to make them.. ) I am involved in the Marine industry . Marine parts and supplies for boats , everything from paint to parts are out of stock and NO delivery dates available. I heard Ford is running out of engines for Super Duty trucks and some GM models are stuck on the line awaiting parts. It's a mess... Here in Canada, we have done reasonably well with the Covid thing. We paid billions of $$$$ to millions of people to stay home.. but now we are in debt until the next ice age... Dono where this is going to end up. N Quote
cliffy Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 Navi Don't feel like the Lone Ranger as far as government spending is concerned I think we down here have buried you You couldn't even come close to our spending. We're into the trillions! I'm just curious but with all the blame lately on COVID for being behind, how does that play with TT being 2 years behind in certifying the Mooney? Something that was "a few months" from happening 2 years ago? Long before this COVID crap. I'd love to have a trip to ABQ and drop by their office complex to see if they will even talk about it. 2 Quote
Lionudakis Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 At least when TT was still in the driver seat, Andrew was very involved in the forums/social media. These BK guys seem to just keep posting new stuff their rebranding, but zero human response pertaining to the peeps in limbo and suspense. Quote
Navi Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 >I'm just curious but with all the blame lately on COVID for being behind, how does that play with TT being 2 years behind in certifying the Mooney? Something that was "a few months" from happening 2 years ago? Long before this COVID crap. I don't think it does Cliffy.. I do believe that was a shortage of resources, in the beginning. I do know that when the PA-28 was certed and then the Pa-32s, TT's order book took off. They had EVERYONE on production, and still could not keep up.. I think all development, despite their best intentions, stopped. When they caught their breath, and got the Mooney version in the hands if the FAA ?.. dono what is happening there, no one seems to know.. I had a conversation with Andrew back in Feb when sending my head in for the software upgrade.. I will see if I can find him again... Maybe he has news he can share... A face to face in ABQ would be interesting.. N Quote
Jesse Saint Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 In their defense, I believe they have been waiting on the FAA for the better part of a year now. The transition to B/K surely added some delay to the approval, then COVID added more. Quote
Bob - S50 Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 12 hours ago, Navi said: WHAAAAAAAAT!??? Absolutely NOT on MY aircraft! That's the last thing I want it to do! That's a "failure mode" on other autopilots.. (1) Not doing something when you want it to... and... (2) The "autopilot doing something you don't want it to" So.... WHAT do you do to get this thing to stay off the yoke? Pull the breaker? Envelope protection is a great thing when wanted/needed, but not a great thing when you cannot turn it off. I did not know this... thanks! N If you really feel the need to fly slower than 65 KIAS, you can turn envelope protection off using the G5. Using my method, the slowest I would want to fly on final would be about 62 KIAS with just me and 10 gallons of gas. I can live with the extra 3 or 4 knots down to 200' AGL. I turned it off the other day for my BFR so I could do stalls and steep turns. Quote
Navi Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 21 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said: If you really feel the need to fly slower than 65 KIAS, you can turn envelope protection off using the G5. Using my method, the slowest I would want to fly on final would be about 62 KIAS with just me and 10 gallons of gas. I can live with the extra 3 or 4 knots down to 200' AGL. I turned it off the other day for my BFR so I could do stalls and steep turns. OK... so the information I was told is incorrect, the min speed reaction can be turned off and STAYS OFF regardless of speed / alt/ everything? N Quote
Bob - S50 Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, Navi said: OK... so the information I was told is incorrect, the min speed reaction can be turned off and STAYS OFF regardless of speed / alt/ everything? N Correct. However, it only stays off for that flight. When you remove power from the system (engine shutdown for example) and power up again (next flight for example), envelope protection will be on. If you want it off for that flight you'll need to turn it off again. Quote
Navi Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said: Correct. However, it only stays off for that flight. When you remove power from the system (engine shutdown for example) and power up again (next flight for example), envelope protection will be on. If you want it off for that flight you'll need to turn it off again. So the pitch servo still activates at min spd even if the AP is fully turned OFF? Quote
Bob - S50 Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 24 minutes ago, Navi said: So the pitch servo still activates at min spd even if the AP is fully turned OFF? Yes, if you are above 200' AGL, unless you turn off ESP. Quote
cliffy Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bob - S50 said: Correct. However, it only stays off for that flight. When you remove power from the system (engine shutdown for example) and power up again (next flight for example), envelope protection will be on. If you want it off for that flight you'll need to turn it off again. This is kinda like the idle shutdown feature on my new truck. At idle (say a stop sign) the engine turns off only to start ON ITS OWN when the brake is released when the light changes. There is a switch on the dash that I can engage to defeat this feature but it is only good for that one drive. Go into the store and the system rearms itself whether I want it or not. Can't get the feature turned off even by the dealer. I DO NOT LIKE THIS WAY OF DOING THINGS! "WE KNOW MORE THAN YOU DO AND YOU'LL USE OUR SYSTEM WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT IT." This will turn around to bite them. Mark my words. Envelope protection should be pilot selectable especially when the A/P is turned off. 200 feet is way too low in my mind If the software can't be massaged then a switch is going in on the servo power lead. I won't have it. There are times that I want to fly a slow final. I don't want someones idea of "cool feature" telling me what I can or can not do when flying my airplane. If I want it I'll use it, If not I want it off all together. This was my biggest nemesis when flying the Airbus. The pilot input was only 1 item the computer looked at and if it didn't like what you were doing it could veto you and do it its own way. Direct Law was the best level of automation when hand flying but we couldn't use it. A better way would be a voice (loud voice) announcing "Speed Speed Speed" would be more effective and less confusing to low time/experience pilots in a high stress situation. The airplane doing something that the pilot wasn't expecting only adds to the confusion What would be your first reaction to a stick pusher at very low altitude? Pull back hard might be the normal response and now you are loading the wing NOT KNOWING THAT YOUR AIRSPEED IS DANGEROUSLY LOW and you are confused as to what is happening. Yank hard to counteract the pusher and where are you? Right into a stall/spin at low altitude. Can we all say BOEING 737 MAX ???? Edited July 20, 2020 by cliffy 3 Quote
Navi Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 35 minutes ago, cliffy said: This is kinda like the idle shutdown feature on my new truck. At idle (say a stop sign) the engine turns off only to start ON ITS OWN when the brake is released when the light changes. There is a switch on the dash that I can engage to defeat this feature but it is only good for that one drive. Go into the store and the system rearms itself whether I want it or not. Can't get the feature turned off even by the dealer. I DO NOT LIKE THIS WAY OF DOING THINGS! "WE KNOW MORE THAN YOU DO AND YOU'LL USE OUR SYSTEM WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT IT." This will turn around to bite them. Mark my words. Envelope protection should be pilot selectable especially when the A/P is turned off. 200 feet is way too low in my mind If the software can't be massaged then a switch is going in on the servo power lead. I won't have it. There are times that I want to fly a slow final. I don't want someones idea of "cool feature" telling me what I can or can not do when flying my airplane. If I want it I'll use it, If not I want it off all together. This was my biggest nemesis when flying the Airbus. The pilot input was only 1 item the computer looked at and if it didn't like what you were doing it could veto you and do it its own way. Direct Law was the best level of automation when hand flying but we couldn't use it. A better way would be a voice (loud voice) announcing "Speed Speed Speed" would be more effective and less confusing to low time/experience pilots in a high stress situation. The airplane doing something that the pilot wasn't expecting only adds to the confusion What would be your first reaction to a stick pusher at very low altitude? Pull back hard might be the normal response and now you are loading the wing NOT KNOWING THAT YOUR AIRSPEED IS DANGEROUSLY LOW and you are confused as to what is happening. Yank hard to counteract the pusher and where are you? Right into a stall/spin at low altitude. Can we all say BOEING 737 MAX ???? I just heard from a GFC 500 owner back channel of the Piper Forum.. Discussion is ramping up there on this issue... .. He was not aware of this . He is upset. Said he will soon be having a "discussion" with his installer/dealer. Gons be interesting to hear what the dealer has to say... N Quote
Navi Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 >There are times that I want to fly a slow final Well.... yes! One fav airstrip I frequent is a slight down hill. On morning arrivals (damp grass?) I drag it in.. flaps 3 and often behind the power curve. Easy and safe. But you (well. I.. ) have to get this set up well out, and get it well slowed down, and come behind the curve in the last 20 feet. I don't have the right Garmin Navigator to inhibit this. And the trees are 50 ft + under me on the approach. So much for 200 ft. GPS altitude. (Shudder) N Quote
cliffy Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 Its called "being a pilot and not just a systems monitor" 1 Quote
Bob - S50 Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 22 minutes ago, Navi said: I just heard from a GFC 500 owner back channel of the Piper Forum.. Discussion is ramping up there on this issue... .. He was not aware of this . He is upset. Said he will soon be having a "discussion" with his installer/dealer. Gons be interesting to hear what the dealer has to say... N It's called READ THE MANUAL. If you don't know about it because you didn't read the AFMS you have nobody to blame but yourself. 1 Quote
MIm20c Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, cliffy said: Its called "being a pilot and not just a systems monitor" I feel the same way about engine monitors. Real pilots should be able to feel which cylinder is running lean No reason to pick apart other systems. Lots of nice gear coming soon to a dealer near you. Quote
Navi Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 30 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said: It's called READ THE MANUAL. If you don't know about it because you didn't read the AFMS you have nobody to blame but yourself. Absolutely! And he knows that. It's new, he is working on it... There is a lot to learn. (Not defending him) He is more concerned that the information was not offered PREVIOUS TO PURCHASE/INSTALLATION. The GFC Manual is generally not available to customers until after you purchase.. Don't get me going on that one.... N Quote
Bob - S50 Posted July 20, 2020 Report Posted July 20, 2020 Just now, Navi said: Absolutely! And he knows that. It's new, he is working on it... There is a lot to learn. (Not defending him) He is more concerned that the information was not offered PREVIOUS TO PURCHASE/INSTALLATION. The GFC Manual is generally not available to customers until after you purchase.. Don't get me going on that one.... N Most of the information is available in the G5 manual (which is the brains of the GFC500). That can be downloaded at any time. I did exactly that myself. Quote
NJMac Posted July 23, 2020 Report Posted July 23, 2020 Heard a rumour that TT is trying an alternate angle to motivate the FAA on this approval. Fingers crossed. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk 1 Quote
Navi Posted July 24, 2020 Report Posted July 24, 2020 On 7/20/2020 at 3:15 PM, Bob - S50 said: Most of the information is available in the G5 manual (which is the brains of the GFC500). That can be downloaded at any time. I did exactly that myself. Thank you! Found it! Still looking for the section on how to change the setup.... N Quote
Navi Posted July 24, 2020 Report Posted July 24, 2020 4 hours ago, NJMac said: Heard a rumour that TT is trying an alternate angle to motivate the FAA on this approval. Fingers crossed. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk I can add to that.. I had an interesting email exchange with Andrew.. First, the good news...........he and family are OK.. Isolating .. :) Incredible challenges at BK. Nothing new, Covid just wrecking havoc with personnel, revenue , production, parts, parts, parts and shipping. Some days there are upsets you would never dream of let alone anticipate.. Vizion AP back orders have been filled or are being filled at this time.. Parts supply still challenging, but being solved. He was very upset and disappointed that so many had to wait so long for product. Mooneys! FAA progress that was slow before has almost completely stopped. FAA STC department working very short staffed. BK looking at engaging an STC house to push this FWD. This may be the alternate angle NJMac was referring to... He and his team, reading between the lines, are frustrated beyond... They have to change tactics somehow if they can hope to have the STC by end of year... It's bad.. I can tell he is really upset with this .. The Aspen next version software with the Alt flags.. He said that ASPEN have been hit hard with the 'Rona. What staff they have still able to work are probably on the Max upgrades orders which took off just before the Virus hit. Another source said they are trying to get the units upgraded that were sent in before this mess hit... It's a real mess... everywhere.. SERIOUS issues, and I fear some of the manufacturers in our world are not going to make it through this :( N 2 Quote
Bob - S50 Posted July 24, 2020 Report Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Navi said: Thank you! Found it! Still looking for the section on how to change the setup.... N It probably won't give you everything you want, but check the experimental documents for installation info. Quote
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