New Side Windows Self Install

[Davarron]

Hello all,

So I am thinking of replacing all of my side windows on my 1983 J model (NOT the windshield as this was done when the plane was repainted a few years ago). I got a quote from my mechanic and he said expect 8-10 hours PER window. Is this a reasonable rate for the side windows on a J model?? 

So I'm thinking of doing it myself with the help of some friends. Anyone who has done this provide any recommendations or tips?

Looking at some of the other topics on Mooneyspace here about window replacement, I see to use CS3330-B2 sealant and then use a bead of PR 1425 on the outside for looks.

I will do Great Lakes Aero Products SC gray for the front two side windows and dark tint for the rear two windows. My windshield is SC gray and I love it.

I appreciate any feedback from previous people who have done this themselves. Thank you so much. 

P.S. My model has the screw clips and not the rivets. And also my model is one of few that has the two window panes on the passenger door.

[Yetti]

Another crazy FAA rule.   replacing the side windows is owner maintenance and the brake pads requires someone watching.

[DonMuncy]

Yes,  you can do it under owner maintenance. I think the hours you were quoted are a little  high. I didn't keep up with the hours, but if I had stayed after it diligently, I think I could have done all 4 in two days. 

It sounds like yours are exactly like my K model in fasteners and double copilot window.

Yes, the gray looks nice, especially with the gray windshield. I have no opinion on the darker ones for the rear.

It will take some cutting and fitting. It will really help to have a band saw (A cheap one from Harbor Freight works fine).

If you have specific questions feel free to PM or call me. 214 207-6744.

 

[Davarron]

1 hour ago, DonMuncy said:

Yes,  you can do it under owner maintenance. I think the hours you were quoted are a little  high. I didn't keep up with the hours, but if I had stayed after it diligently, I think I could have done all 4 in two days. 

It sounds like yours are exactly like my K model in fasteners and double copilot window.

Yes, the gray looks nice, especially with the gray windshield. I have no opinion on the darker ones for the rear.

It will take some cutting and fitting. It will really help to have a band saw (A cheap one from Harbor Freight works fine).

If you have specific questions feel free to PM or call me. 214 207-6744.

 

Thank you so much. One of the small cheap bandsaws will work? Metal/wood?

[DonMuncy]

Either one. I would get one for metal (for your next project). Make sure to get a blade with pretty fine teeth (similar to a hacksaw). Don't peel the protective covering off the glass until you have it fitted right, so as to not scratch it.

[Davarron]

4 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Either one. I would get one for metal (for your next project). Make sure to get a blade with pretty fine teeth (similar to a hacksaw). Don't peel the protective covering off the glass until you have it fitted right, so as to not scratch it.

Would a jig saw be any easier to be able to lay the window across two horses and cut it that way? 

[Davarron]

Any tips on removing the sealant from the exterior of the aircraft?

[carusoam]

Read up on drilling as well... or buy the special drill from GLAP the window people...

Read up on the sealant to use and how to clean the old stuff out...

 

Your first window is going to take some time.  You start with the wrong window tint, then you save money on the drill bit, then you use the wrong sealant, you try to re-use original screws....  (all before MS...)

skip all those extra steps and it probably only takes a couple of hours to do each one right...

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob_Belville]

With the GLAP windows you should have very little cutting to do to fit. Mine fit almost perfectly except for a small notch I had to make for clearance around a bolt for the shoulder straps. A tool grinder with a cutting wheel and a polishing pad is useful. (The windshield is another story but you're not tackling that.)

I'm not sure about the J, for my E model the bigger task is drilling the "glass". Lots of screws. 

 

[Bob_Belville]

Also, you'll want to consider the GLAP option to include a vent window in the door. Very nice for cross ventilation and in an emergency you can reach the outside door handle!

[RLCarter]

A jig saw is too shaky in my opinion....and DO NOT over tighten the screws 

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, RLCarter said:

A jig saw is too shaky in my opinion....and DO NOT over tighten the screws 

Yes, and the GLAP instructions will probably warn about other concerns, e.g. the holes you drill in the plexi should be the right size - not too tight on the screw, the plexi is brittle if cold... 

Have fun!

[carusoam]

Test all your cutting skills using acrylic sheet from Home Depot first... the acrylic has a tendency to try and melt just above the temp of boiling water...

The cutting tools will try to grab and stress the sheet.  A little stress and a crack propagates ruining the part...

when you are done, it looks perfect... and the windows can be looked through...

Best regards,

-a-

[DonMuncy]

18 minutes ago, Davarron said:

Would a jig saw be any easier to be able to lay the window across two horses and cut it that way? 

Although a jig saw will do the job, and you may well get by with it, jig saws have a reciprocating action, which in my opinion runs a risk of  breakage of the glass

Incidentally, I think his plane uses clips and does not have fastener holes through the glass.

[Davarron]

Thank you so much for all the quick responses. This sounds like a fun multi day project. Thankfully I believe mine does have the clips and should not require any hole drilling. 

[Yetti]

Someone milled the edges so it would be a flush fit.   A router or dremel tool with router attachment should be able to accomplish.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Yetti said:

Someone milled the edges so it would be a flush fit.   A router or dremel tool with router attachment should be able to accomplish.

I’ve done the flush fit in my second E model. I made a guide fixture mounted on a table saw with a sharp carbide blade.  It’s a bunch of extra work, but it was very nice look afterward.

Clarence

[Igor_U]

You got a bunch of good advice above so I'll be brief:

I had to do a bunch of drilling for pilot and co-pilot side windows ('67F) and it took me about 8h each. Buy a special drill bit if you need it and you should be OK. At the time I had no hangar (12 years ago there was 3y waiting list at KPAE) so work was done on the ramp. I used Great Lakes Aero glass and didn't have to do any trimming.  Aft windows was done by my shop and I think it took them 20h (or so) but that included 201 modification and 337 paperwork.

It is an easy job to do for the owner but it just takes time. I believe removal of the old sealant is hardest part.

Good luck.

[MARZ]

9 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Also, you'll want to consider the GLAP option to include a vent window in the door. Very nice for cross ventilation and in an emergency you can reach the outside door handle!

If I had seen that when I did my windows I would have jumped on it - especially now that I have a Kool Scoop - two of em would be awesome here in Texas.....

[MARZ]

27 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

I believe removal of the old sealant is hardest part.

Absolutely the most time consuming part of the deal.  Approach it knowing its going to take some time.  Almost good enough isn't.

[Bob_Belville]

1 minute ago, Mike Ropers said:

Absolutely the most time consuming part of the deal.  Approach it knowing its going to take some time.  Almost good enough isn't.

+1. My windows had at least 3 kinds of old caulk, plumbers putty, silicone... everything except the proper 2 part sealant. 

[Bob_Belville]

8 minutes ago, Mike Ropers said:

If I had seen that when I did my windows I would have jumped on it - especially now that I have a Kool Scoop - two of em would be awesome here in Texas.....

We have scoops on both sides. Of course we still don't have the plane they're attached to... but I hope to pick it up next week. 

[carusoam]

Prist is a funny name...

One is a fuel additive...

The other a window cleaner....

best regards,

-a-

[bradp]

I did the windows and would estimate about 20 hrs for all the windows. Prep (masking, removing old sealant, etc) is the hardest part.  I combined the project with an interior refurb and SB-208b and new insulation as well.  

I’ll  post in more detail tomorrow but be careful and follow all the instructions with the windows to avoid cracks and excess heat. You’ll need the drill bits to install the windows and drill a hole for a river heat in the forward lower pilot window corner    Minimal trimming will be required   Do the SB-208 while you have the interior out   There’s a perfect time at which you can remove and clean up the exterior sealant that beads out   Use isopropyl 99% to clean sealant as it’s safe on paint and the transparencies  

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/17799-going-to-pull-the-interior

 

[Socalflyer]

On 6/8/2018 at 5:24 AM, MARZ said:

Absolutely the most time consuming part of the deal.  Approach it knowing its going to take some time.  Almost good enough isn't.

What tools would I need to remove the old insulation? Need to do this soon.