$100 Engine Montitor

[McMooney]

Wow you know, i never put two and two together,  Can this be done legally?

I've done industrial computing for 25 years, it would be simple to build my own engine monitor.

Could i maybe put this under owner produced parts ?

[Yetti]

The idea is to have certified/PMA/ sensors attached to the engine a bayonet connector (just like the ones Mooney uses)  to connect the electronics box and then thumb screws to connect the electronics box.   If the electronics box could survive on the engine side of the firewall, all the better so no punching holes in the firewall.  Since it is wifi to the HMI, totally removable in about 2 minutes without tools.  There is nothing to sign off other than the sensors attached to the engine.  If we use Garmin G1000 sensors those are from the factory so no STC needed.  JPI sensors would need the STC.

 

 

[N601RX]

What does a set of Garmin Certified Sensors cost?  A set of Garmin experimental sensors for a 4 cylinder lycoming is over $1k at Spruce.  Some of them are overpriced industrial items, but JPI has put a lot of work into reducing the mass of their EGT sensors to make them respond quicker as well as use an alloy that will last in the environment they are operated in. 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by N601RX

[Yetti]

The best thing I saw, not sure where was the combined Thermocouple/heater element which would do well for those who are excited about pre heating.  Just like Mooney bought most of their electrical stuff from McMaster Carr to put in their planes, JPI and Garmin are buying off the shelf stuff too.

 

[Rumblestrip]

@Yetti you may have seen this solution, but in case not, Raspberry Pi has a "dash" solution ready to go.  This guy used it for his Miata race car.

 

[Yetti]

Looks like they are running tuner studio on the RP.  https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/raspberry-pi-3-tunerstudio-90545/

 

[ArtVandelay]

Looks like it’s now going to be a $200 EM

[Browncbr1]

Didn’t know they started making those cool plugin touch screens.  Sweet. 

[Rumblestrip]

On 2/11/2018 at 9:42 PM, Yetti said:

Looks like they are running tuner studio on the RP.  https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/raspberry-pi-3-tunerstudio-90545/

 

Yes sir!

[Yetti]

Looks like most of the automotive systems plug into the ODBC onboard computer.   Since we don't have one of those or a canbus.....   In other news I was informed there were updated sensors that can provide more information than the lowly temp probe and cht probe.

 

[Yetti]

For when you want to take the LOP conversation to 11  http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/media/catalog_resources/Lambda_Sensor_LSU_49_Datasheet_51_en_2779147659pdf.pdf

Looks like that will only get us to CAN Bus or analog sensors

http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/media/catalog_resources/Lambdatronic_LT4_Datasheet_51_en_2785631627pdf.pdf

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Yetti

[EricJ]

45 minutes ago, Yetti said:

For when you want to take the LOP conversation to 11  http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/media/catalog_resources/Lambda_Sensor_LSU_49_Datasheet_51_en_2779147659pdf.pdf

Looks like that will only get us to CAN Bus or analog sensors

http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/media/catalog_resources/Lambdatronic_LT4_Datasheet_51_en_2785631627pdf.pdf

 

Hook up an O2 (lambda) sensor in the exhaust and a MAF (mass air flow) or air density meter in the intake, get rpm from the ignition and clone a Megasquirt or other engine controller to automatically drive the mixture control.

This kind of hacking has been going on for decades in garages, I've wondered how long it would take to get to aviation. 

 

[Dream to fly]

Hook up an O2 (lambda) sensor in the exhaust and a MAF (mass air flow) or air density meter in the intake, get rpm from the ignition and clone a Megasquirt or other engine controller to automatically drive the mixture control.

This kind of hacking has been going on for decades in garages, I've wondered how long it would take to get to aviation. 
 

You have to ask? Did it get price inflated over manipulated and government controlled by the FAA? That's why!!! I've been preaching this for years. There is way better ways to power a plane. But government is involved. Enough said......

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[Baxsie]

If you are going to have a MegaSquirt, might as well have it control the injectors and ignition. 

2x complete MegaSquirt with complete 2nd battery? Some kind of sync/fail-over line between the two MegaSquirts? 

MegaSquirt can do individual injector control, so you wouldn't need expensive matched injectors. Each cylinder could be leaned manually or maybe automatically in the actual engine. 

One (turbo air-cooled VW) guy I know put one lambda sensor per cylinder so he could easily do per-cylinder tuning. 

On the other hand, there are so many failure modes that would need to be analyzed and addressed. All that work has been done for mags and carbs/mechanical FI. Some strong arguments for KISS. 

 

 

[Hank]

Sounds like ya'll have it figured out (but it's all Greek to me). Now build one and attach it to the engine in your EAB aircraft, cause we'll all be dead from old age before the Feds ever allow it on a certified plane . . . . . Do let us know how it works out, so we can all be jealous together.  

[Dream to fly]

Sounds like ya'll have it figured out (but it's all Greek to me). Now build one and attach it to the engine in your EAB aircraft, cause we'll all be dead from old age before the Feds ever allow it on a certified plane . . . . . Do let us know how it works out, so we can all be jealous together.  

And that is the problem. There actually is a company in S.Africa that is building them right now. They redesigned a V-engine to run the prop off of the cam drive instead of the crank. They have been at Oshkosh the last few years. They use OBD2 platforms that have a redundant ignition and fuel driver module. Each cylinder is independent and cooling is done in the heads only. Really simple yet beyond the realm of the FAA being a part of it. 225 - 250 HP with TBO well above 2500hrs.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[1964-M20E]

10 hours ago, Baxsie said:

If you are going to have a MegaSquirt, might as well have it control the injectors and ignition. 

2x complete MegaSquirt with complete 2nd battery? Some kind of sync/fail-over line between the two MegaSquirts? 

MegaSquirt can do individual injector control, so you wouldn't need expensive matched injectors. Each cylinder could be leaned manually or maybe automatically in the actual engine. 

One (turbo air-cooled VW) guy I know put one lambda sensor per cylinder so he could easily do per-cylinder tuning. 

On the other hand, there are so many failure modes that would need to be analyzed and addressed. All that work has been done for mags and carbs/mechanical FI. Some strong arguments for KISS. 

 

 

Someone has already done this albeit for experimental only

http://www.flyefii.com/products/efii-systems/

[Dream to fly]

2 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

Someone has already done this albeit for experimental only

http://www.flyefii.com/products/efii-systems/

Been done and proven...  Europe has been a test bed for years...  550,000 plus hours of testing...   GM, Ford, Toyota, and now Honda all have aviation platforms that work but only Honda pursued it to get to approval.    That SDS system is all bosch components and machined adapters so they can fit the two major platforms.  Even the computer is based on tried and true automotive technology.  The best is system cost, it is cheaper to install then installing an EDM 930.   Some how though I prefer pulling a mixture lever and playing with plastic gears and distributors/magnetos.   Change is a good thing and so is competition.....  

[Andy95W]

I'm really torn about this.  Joe's argument is pretty compelling, but the worst-case scenario failure mode is what worries me (and probably the FAA, too).

Worst case scenario in a motor vehicle is probably 80 mph on the freeway when an injector (or ignition system) fails.  At the most, a few people might be placed in danger and in all likelihood, nobody will die.

Worst-case scenario in a single engine plane is on takeoff, full power, 100' AGL, from LaGuardia.  No question, someone is going to die and it will probably be a bunch of people.

Plastic gears in a magneto are a bit scary, but if one fails, the engine will still produce partial power.

It seems the FAA is finally starting to change its mindset, though.  Best example is probably the realization that electronic attitude indicators are actually more reliable than an archaic vacuum pump that is guaranteed to fail at least twice before TBO of the engine.  So I think I'll count myself as hopeful for the future.

[Dream to fly]

12 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I'm really torn about this.  Joe's argument is pretty compelling, but the worst-case scenario failure mode is what worries me (and probably the FAA, too).

Worst case scenario in a motor vehicle is probably 80 mph on the freeway when an injector (or ignition system) fails.  At the most, a few people might be placed in danger and in all likelihood, nobody will die.

Worst-case scenario in a single engine plane is on takeoff, full power, 100' AGL, from LaGuardia.  No question, someone is going to die and it will probably be a bunch of people.

Plastic gears in a magneto are a bit scary, but if one fails, the engine will still produce partial power.

It seems the FAA is finally starting to change its mindset, though.  Best example is probably the realization that electronic attitude indicators are actually more reliable than an archaic vacuum pump that is guaranteed to fail at least twice before TBO of the engine.  So I think I'll count myself as hopeful for the future.

Totally agree.  But if you look at the system and how they designed it, it has two of everything.  and each set of companion cylinders has its own coil.  In effect you would have four or six separate engines running and a 50/50 split of sharing ignition coils.  Even the driver modules are independent.  Just like a mag check right/left  now its EM1/EM2  (engine management).   I've been doing this for years converting old equipment carbureted to FI.  It is easy and the engines run better more efficient and have way more power.  I will confess it is easy to go overboard my wife can tell stories of how many times I said hey come check this out and she grabs a fire suit and helmet.   Sometimes you can go too far

[Andy95W]

That's great stuff, you obviously know WAY more about it than me.  It makes me even more hopeful for the future.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

Been done and proven...  Europe has been a test bed for years...  550,000 plus hours of testing...   GM, Ford, Toyota, and now Honda all have aviation platforms that work but only Honda pursued it to get to approval.    That SDS system is all bosch components and machined adapters so they can fit the two major platforms.  Even the computer is based on tried and true automotive technology.  The best is system cost, it is cheaper to install then installing an EDM 930.   Some how though I prefer pulling a mixture lever and playing with plastic gears and distributors/magnetos.   Change is a good thing and so is competition.....  

Plus there is some FADEC stuff out there, like what Cirrus has, but which seems to still need some development based on claims of early TBOs, failures, etc., with Cirrus airplanes.   Went to Lake Havasu (KHII) a while back for lunch and a Cirrus had parked next to me.   The guy was trying to start it just as we were leaving and having a hell of a time.   I couldn't help but think that the FADEC system might actually be in the way and making it harder to start.    Did a hot start on the forty-year-old Mooney and it fired right up first try. 

The automotive systems have been around long enough that they're pretty mature and I'd think could be pretty easily adapted as you mention.   Some of the FADEC systems seem to me to be the orphan stepchild trying to run the compromises down the middle and not doing it so well.

 

[Yetti]

Ha ha no.  I work with computers and control systems on a daily basis, I am just going to out of scope ECU right now.   As far as information to better help the pilot move the knobs, that is still in scope.    What if the monitor told you to "Lean it some more dummy"  That is what is in scope .

[Dream to fly]

6 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Ha ha no.  I work with computers and control systems on a daily basis, I am just going to out of scope ECU right now.   As far as information to better help the pilot move the knobs, that is still in scope.    What if the monitor told you to "Lean it some more dummy"  That is what is in scope .

That is too funny...  I want that in a female voice so I don't get culture shock when my wife yells at me....

[Yetti]

I am on my 3rd or 4th web based angular package....   I think this one will work.   Currently still learning on the front end.