Paint shops in florida

[garylayne]

I am shopping aircraft paint facilities in FL for my M20F - the closer to F45, the better.  I currently am speaking with shops at VDF, BOW and Deland.  Seems a full strip and paint is about 7-8K and a scuff and shoot is 5-6.  Will probably go with the full strip.  Can any mooney owners share their experiences associated with these places or others either good or bad?  Pictures and points of contact are greatly appreciated.

 

thanks

Gary

garylayne1@gmail.com

[flhelo]

Gary,

I have talked to the folks at Bartow. They told me for the price that you ARE NOT getting a show quality paint job. You might get some runs and/orange peel. But if you weren't satisfied they would try to correct it the best they could.

Jerry is the owner and doesn't shoot paint any more. His painters dodn't seem to stay there very long, not sure why that is. Other people have told me that some aircraft come out Awesome, and others not so good.

There was someone one this site that got their Mooney painted there. Can't remember who it was. The pics looked pretty good.

Also, John Foster is ay KLAL at the old Piper plant. I have heard great things about his operation. BUT is about $10K for a basic paint and strip.

I am also looking for a paint job but since I am finishing up my interior, it will have to wait until next year.

Good Luck!

[LT4BIRD]

I paint on the side out of srq. I also have a couple planes I did you can look at. I can do ulumigripe  or jetglo with about a 30day turnaround. Give me a ring I would be happy to give you a quote. 813-817-4547 ask for Sean

 

.

[garylayne]

Quote: LT4BIRD

Sean,

Great speaking with you today.  You can find pics of my mooney and the apache under my other mooneyspace login - N212WD.  I forgot my password and changed my original email so I couldnt recover it, thus the new user name.   Maybe I can get some help from someone to merge the accts.  Anyway, take a look and I look forward to seeing the pics that you post.

take care

Gary

 

I paint on the side out of srq. I also have a couple planes I did you can look at. I can do ulumigripe  or jetglo with about a 30day turnaround. Give me a ring I would be happy to give you a quote. 813-817-4547 ask for Sean

 

.

[garylayne]

Quote: flhelo

Yep,

Jerry was pretty open about his work and his warranty.  He said they have learned from some things and do thier best to make the customer happy.  While I was there, a very nice ovation was just getting the finishing touches on it.  It also had the paint scheme and color that I will want.  I have to tell you that it was absolutely beautiful.  So all the shops I have seen so far have pretty good work.... I believe that it will boil down to distance and price.

thanks

Gary

Gary,

I have talked to the folks at Bartow. They told me for the price that you ARE NOT getting a show quality paint job. You might get some runs and/orange peel. But if you weren't satisfied they would try to correct it the best they could.

Jerry is the owner and doesn't shoot paint any more. His painters dodn't seem to stay there very long, not sure why that is. Other people have told me that some aircraft come out Awesome, and others not so good.

There was someone one this site that got their Mooney painted there. Can't remember who it was. The pics looked pretty good.

Also, John Foster is ay KLAL at the old Piper plant. I have heard great things about his operation. BUT is about $10K for a basic paint and strip.

I am also looking for a paint job but since I am finishing up my interior, it will have to wait until next year.

Good Luck!

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Quote: garylayne

I am shopping aircraft paint facilities in FL for my M20F - the closer to F45, the better.  I currently am speaking with shops at VDF, BOW and Deland.  Seems a full strip and paint is about 7-8K and a scuff and shoot is 5-6.  Will probably go with the full strip.  Can any mooney owners share their experiences associated with these places or others either good or bad?  Pictures and points of contact are greatly appreciated.

 

thanks

Gary

garylayne1@gmail.com

[garylayne]

I got a quote from them, but 17k seemed a little steep....

Quote: 201-FLYER

 SALTAIR in Ormand Beach has my vote. They painted my Mooney in 2008 and it still looks brand new today.  Pictures are posted at www.FASTFLIGHTOPTIONS.com

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Well I see their prices have gone up

[LT4BIRD]

This is a 172 I did a few years ago. Jet glo

[LT4BIRD]

Doing this turbo Arrow now.

[LT4BIRD]

 

Another arrow.

[LT4BIRD]

Ok try again

[aerobat95]

Wow that quote seems pretty high....you should make a trip out to the midwest....I am pretty sure you could do better

[donshapansky]

I did my Rocket at Crider Aircraft in Mena, AR in January 2010, I had some paint that blistered, some rain damage in 350 hrs and this January he took it back and made a bunch of repairs for free under his 2 year warranty that he offered. The price was $8,500.00 plus local tax. My pictures are on my info base here.

[garylayne]

Don,

That is a great looking aircraft.  I lived in TX last year and I wish I did the paint while I was out there. 

[LT4BIRD]

Quote: donshapansky

I did my Rocket at Crider Aircraft in Mena, AR in January 2010, I had some paint that blistered, some rain damage in 350 hrs and this January he took it back and made a bunch of repairs for free under his 2 year warranty that he offered. The price was $8,500.00 plus local tax. My pictures are on my info base here.

[Saltaire]

Just joined this forum and decided to check in here. I am the co-owner of Saltaire and at least feel a response from someone in the paint business can lend some insight here. I am not here to defend my company’s bid but rather to give everyone a little insight into this topic.

 

1. 
   
2. It takes approximately 250 to 300 man-hours to strip and paint a Mooney, so if the shop you’re working with is bidding $8K consider where they are taking the shortcuts to make a profit at that price.
   
3. A reputable shop will remove all control surfaces, spinner, cowling, gear doors, and access panels. Does the shop have an A & P on staff?
   
4. If you are looking to apply a TLS style paint scheme think about the layout person who is going to lay all that tape and the hours it will take.
   
5. Will the shop remove all the access panels on the underside of the wing, prime them off the airplane and paint the exterior surfaces, off the airplane. This guarantees no paint bridged surfaces between the wing and panels so at your next annual your wing does not look like a disaster after the panels have been reinstalled
   
6. Will the surfaces be rebalanced, reinstalled with new hardware, and all access panels installed with new stainless steel hardware?
   

 

Do your homework; unlike other services you pay for whether it’s your car or house, the person who works on your airplane better be qualified and reputable.  

 

Joe de Cillis; Co-Owner, Saltaire Aircraft Refinishing

 

[231Pilot]

Quote: Saltaire

Do your homework; unlike other services you pay for whether it’s your car or house, the person who works on your airplane better be qualified and reputable.  

 

Joe de Cillis; Co-Owner, Saltaire Aircraft Refinishing

 

[garylayne]

Joe,

 

No argument here.  Painting the plane is arguably one of the "bigger" life decisions - at least for me.  One of the reasons I am socializing the idea on this forum.  I find it comforting to get first hand information from actual people that have "been there. done that". 

 

I have been personally visiting the paint shops that I am considering and there is no doubt that a re-paint takes a lot of work and a lot of man hours.  I can only imagine where a shop owner could cut costs.  But at the end of the day all considerations must be made - a big one is economics.  With paint, maintenance, avionics - it is all expensive and you get what you pay for. 

 

But since I have you on here, can I ask what the additional $4k quote for repainting in the original color scheme is for?  The estimate allows for the below: 

Included in base price are three fuselage stripes and "N" numbers, (max two trim colors, "N" numbers to be the darker trim color)

Why would the original TLS paint scheme cost 4k more?  I am considering a different paint scheme anyway, but I was curious.

thanks

Gary

Quote: Saltaire

Just joined this forum and decided to check in here. I am the co-owner of Saltaire and at least feel a response from someone in the paint business can lend some insight here. I am not here to defend my company’s bid but rather to give everyone a little insight into this topic.

 

It takes approximately 250 to 300 man-hours to strip and paint a Mooney, so if the shop you’re working with is bidding $8K consider where they are taking the shortcuts to make a profit at that price.

A reputable shop will remove all control surfaces, spinner, cowling, gear doors, and access panels. Does the shop have an A & P on staff?

If you are looking to apply a TLS style paint scheme think about the layout person who is going to lay all that tape and the hours it will take.

Will the shop remove all the access panels on the underside of the wing, prime them off the airplane and paint the exterior surfaces, off the airplane. This guarantees no paint bridged surfaces between the wing and panels so at your next annual your wing does not look like a disaster after the panels have been reinstalled

Will the surfaces be rebalanced, reinstalled with new hardware, and all access panels installed with new stainless steel hardware?

 

Do your homework; unlike other services you pay for whether it’s your car or house, the person who works on your airplane better be qualified and reputable.  

 

Joe de Cillis; Co-Owner, Saltaire Aircraft Refinishing

 

[Saltaire]

Gary,

 

First you should know that our normal “up-charge” for two-tone on a single is $2K. That is for a second color on the fuselage only and stripes. That said you have a very valid question. Its origins go back to the very first TLS scheme we painted back in 1996 if my memory is correct. This discussion involves the top coat effort only figuring all other prep is done and the airplane is in prime.

 

Let’s say you want it to be white/navy blue with gold stripes. First we spray the white which is the major color. In this step we don’t shoot the belly since it’s going blue. We then tape off for the blue which for a TLS scheme will mean installing (temporarily) ailerons, flaps and rudder. We need to pin these in place to align the tape. Once taped all these surfaces are removed so we can complete the tape job around the LE of the surfaces and tape off the backside of the wing and vertical. We’ll also need to paint the main landing gear doors because they will be blue as well. Sand everything that is to be painted blue, bag the rest of the airplane and paint blue. Once the blue is cured, pin the surfaces on again and tape for the gold and follow the steps outlined above, remove the surfaces, close out the tape job on the surface LE’s and the backside of the wings and vertical sand and paint the gold.

 

Striping for the gold is very time consuming and we’ve tried it several different ways but always come back to one line at a time. One time we had our masking vendor cut us the stripes on a wide vinyl mask but it was extremely cumbersome to lay-out and didn’t save us any time. Another time we tried painting a wide gold strip first then mask it off and then paint blue.

 

At the end of the day, after we’ve painted white, to complete the TLS paint scheme will consume approximately 80 additional man-hours over our base price between the layout, install and remove surfaces, sanding, bagging the airplane and painting. Also, paint prices for trim colors have gone up considerably. Reds and yellows are as high as $500.00 for a mixed gallon (catalyzed) and blues and greens are running $300.00 mixed. For reference, base white runs $200 to $225. The TLS scheme will use 1.5 gallons mixed where a standard two-tone fuselage will use only a half gallon.

 

Hope this information is helpful,

 

Joe

 

[garylayne]

Yes, very helpful.   Thank you

Quote: Saltaire

Gary,

 

First you should know that our normal “up-charge” for two-tone on a single is $2K. That is for a second color on the fuselage only and stripes. That said you have a very valid question. Its origins go back to the very first TLS scheme we painted back in 1996 if my memory is correct. This discussion involves the top coat effort only figuring all other prep is done and the airplane is in prime.

 

Let’s say you want it to be white/navy blue with gold stripes. First we spray the white which is the major color. In this step we don’t shoot the belly since it’s going blue. We then tape off for the blue which for a TLS scheme will mean installing (temporarily) ailerons, flaps and rudder. We need to pin these in place to align the tape. Once taped all these surfaces are removed so we can complete the tape job around the LE of the surfaces and tape off the backside of the wing and vertical. We’ll also need to paint the main landing gear doors because they will be blue as well. Sand everything that is to be painted blue, bag the rest of the airplane and paint blue. Once the blue is cured, pin the surfaces on again and tape for the gold and follow the steps outlined above, remove the surfaces, close out the tape job on the surface LE’s and the backside of the wings and vertical sand and paint the gold.

 

Striping for the gold is very time consuming and we’ve tried it several different ways but always come back to one line at a time. One time we had our masking vendor cut us the stripes on a wide vinyl mask but it was extremely cumbersome to lay-out and didn’t save us any time. Another time we tried painting a wide gold strip first then mask it off and then paint blue.

 

At the end of the day, after we’ve painted white, to complete the TLS paint scheme will consume approximately 80 additional man-hours over our base price between the layout, install and remove surfaces, sanding, bagging the airplane and painting. Also, paint prices for trim colors have gone up considerably. Reds and yellows are as high as $500.00 for a mixed gallon (catalyzed) and blues and greens are running $300.00 mixed. For reference, base white runs $200 to $225. The TLS scheme will use 1.5 gallons mixed where a standard two-tone fuselage will use only a half gallon.

 

Hope this information is helpful,

 

Joe

 

[flight2000]

Here's what the process looks like in pictures...

http://www.67m20e.com/paint_job.htm

I used R&B Aircraft in Topeka, KS last year because I wanted to be close to the shop for inspections, visits, and just all around BSing with the guys.  Lot's of good shops out there.  Send me a PM if you'd like a break down on the cost. 

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Quote: Saltaire

Just joined this forum and decided to check in here. I am the co-owner of Saltaire and at least feel a response from someone in the paint business can lend some insight here. I am not here to defend my company’s bid but rather to give everyone a little insight into this topic.

 

It takes approximately 250 to 300 man-hours to strip and paint a Mooney, so if the shop you’re working with is bidding $8K consider where they are taking the shortcuts to make a profit at that price.

A reputable shop will remove all control surfaces, spinner, cowling, gear doors, and access panels. Does the shop have an A & P on staff?

If you are looking to apply a TLS style paint scheme think about the layout person who is going to lay all that tape and the hours it will take.

Will the shop remove all the access panels on the underside of the wing, prime them off the airplane and paint the exterior surfaces, off the airplane. This guarantees no paint bridged surfaces between the wing and panels so at your next annual your wing does not look like a disaster after the panels have been reinstalled

Will the surfaces be rebalanced, reinstalled with new hardware, and all access panels installed with new stainless steel hardware?

 

Do your homework; unlike other services you pay for whether it’s your car or house, the person who works on your airplane better be qualified and reputable.  

 

Joe de Cillis; Co-Owner, Saltaire Aircraft Refinishing

 

[Saltaire]

Nick,

 

No argument from me, $17K is a tough pill to swallow but we’re talking about a TLS scheme here which we charge $4K extra for. Our base price for a white, three stripes, two trim colors with drop shadowed “N” numbers is $12K.

 

For example, if we take 250 hours to complete a Mooney, which is what our data shows as average/low for labor hours, the following cost scenario plays out. Our fully burdened cost (similar to a car body shop) without profit is $32/hr for labor, sound reasonable? That’s $8K cost including burden. Now we’re going to add $3K in materials, our cost. Looks like I just made $1K or 8.3% on that paint job.

 

So your next questions should be; how accurate are my hours, what is your burden and what is all that material that costs you $3K?

 

We’ve been tracking our material costs since 1994 against sales (percent of sales) since then it averages 25% of the sales dollar. Almost all the materials we use are oil based products (enough said there) and we include in that number all disposable shop supplies. Burden includes mortgage payments on hangars, power, insurance all (liability is expensive!), taxes, transportation (freight in), etc.

 

We track the hours by job number in the shop so each employee logs his hours against a job. This is the historical data we use to determine our price structure. The truth is our prices have gone up for two primary reasons, our crew is all American and the last guy hired was 5 years ago. We have (4) A&P’s on staff with one holding an IA. Our total staff including office help is (7). For a low turn over highly qualified staff we do pay more.

 

So how does a guy do your Mooney for $8K? Well here are some of the things we’ve seen; control surfaces not removed (tell tale sign, old painted nuts and bolts after paint), use of a “wash primer” instead of etch/alodine and epoxy prime, no stainless hardware, all access panels painted on the airplane (this looks great till after your next annual), overspray from trim colors, no attention to the wheel wells (painted grease, my personal favorite), and most important of all a crew that cannot speak the language and a mechanic that can’t read AC43-13.  

 

Nick; this is my brief explanation of how it works. Just one last thing, after you get that $8K paint job your feelings won’t be hurt if I decline to ride in it, ok?

[LT4BIRD]

So you would decline to ride in someones Mooney simpley because they had a 8,000 paint job?

Like some how the aircraft has become unairworthy. 

Perhaps the shop that did the work has less overhead than you. Less rent. Less people to employ.

Paint is like art. Some people cant afford "Picasso".

Pardon me do you have any Grey Poupon.