New Member, Very Close to Buying C Model

[MBDiagMan]

That is pretty much what I am thinking.  I am all in favor having thorough training, but this is just not what sounds like the norm.

[MBDiagMan]

Back to square one!  He isn't going to be finished with the plane by noon today after all.  The instructor that I have been talking about above has had some family issues come up that is going to keep him from staying very long anyway.  I have another instructor that has a funeral tomorrow and can't get away, but can come mid next week after the weather opens back up.

When I bought my 140 some years ago everything drug out like this.  If I have learned no othe life lesson from flying it has been patience.

Looks like flying my girlfriend in the Mooney to Galveston for Spring Break is not going to happen.

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Looks like flying my girlfriend in the Mooney to Galveston for Spring Break is not going to happen.

 

[carusoam]

Expect the plane to be new and different.  Go through the usual transition training for the Mooney.  Cover all the bases.

Comparing to other planes is nice because it shows your level of experience. Just expect to learn a few things in all the hours of TT.

Skipping the training leaves you learning on your own. Or not having the experience before you need it.

E descents, go-arounds, and engine out procedures are worth learning from somebody with Mooney CFI experience.  Some of these things you can really run out of hands with...

PP ideas only, not a CFI.

Best regards,

-a-

[MBDiagMan]

If I have learned nothing else from flying, I have certainly learned patience, but waiting for the plane I have already paid for is killing me.:)

[gsxrpilot]

I was trying to find a way to help get the plane up to you... but it was a bit short notice on Thursday to come up with a solution for Friday. And now the weather has moved in. It's really a pity since the plane is only about 2 Mooney hours away.

[MBDiagMan]

That was very kind of you Paul!  I appreciate the effort very much!  This has drug out discouragingly, but the good news is that the plane has been gone over thoroughly by someone with decades of nothing but Mooney service with some very minor issues found and corrected.  The plane now has a fresh annual and is ready to go.  The Mooney specialist CFI who was originally going to bring it to me Thursday was thoroughly impressed with the plane as was the guy doing the annual.  

I am excited knowing that I own a very nicely equipped plane with low total time engine and prop, fresh paint in SMU colors, and is the manual gear, manual flaps equipped Mooney that I have wanted for the last 25 years.  I have wanted a plane like this ever since reading about them when I took flying lessons in 1991.  Makes my waiting even more difficult.

[Wildhorsesracing]

While you are waiting for your plane you can plan your hangar parking.

My hangar is 48ft wide by 26ft deep, the two areas in the back are 12ft by 7ft.  The lines make it real easy to put them away.

[MBDiagMan]

Another obstacle.:(  the weather was supposed to be good Wednesday and Thursday, now there is low ceiling and chance of thunderstorms Thursday.  So, it looks as if at least the plane will probably be here.  I just won't get the second day with the Mooney instructor that will bring it.  I was getting excited because he said I would probably be done the second day and wanted me to take him to love field to catch a Southwest.  He said Love is very GA friendly.  Having an instructor coach me into Love would be really great.

[gsxrpilot]

2 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Another obstacle.:(  the weather was supposed to be good Wednesday and Thursday, now there is low ceiling and chance of thunderstorms Thursday.  So, it looks as if at least the plane will probably be here.  I just won't get the second day with the Mooney instructor that will bring it.  I was getting excited because he said I would probably be done the second day and wanted me to take him to love field to catch a Southwest.  He said Love is very GA friendly.  Having an instructor coach me into Love would be really great.

KDAL is very GA friendly. It's become my go to airport when going into Dallas. The best/cheapest FBO on the field is Texstar. It's between the approach end of runways 13L and 13R.  You just don't want to buy fuel there, or anywhere at Love.

Controllers are super friendly and easy to work with. You'll usually get your choice of left or right runway. And there's almost never any waiting when ready to depart.

[SkydriverM20]

Hello all.  This is a great thread.  I too am just about to purchase a 1964 Mooney M20C.  I noticed many of you are from Texas.  I am a Dallas native.  Good to know there are some fellow Mooney pilots around.  I am curious what you cost for you annual etc wound up being if you would not mind sharing?  The plane I am considering is very similar to your situation oddly enough.  I am an experienced commercial pilot.  Flown many types of aircraft big and small.  However, I have never owned one.  The Mooney would be my first, but I think im on the right track here interms of value and efficiency.  Any tips you guys can give on Escrow aspects and the actual purchase process when it comes to negotiating logistics would be appreciated. Obviosuly I will be doing a thorough Pre-buy, but would like more details on proper way to flow the process.  Again, really great info here.  Nice to have a forum like this when purchasing a vintage aircraft.  

[Bob_Belville]

3 hours ago, SkydriverM20 said:

Hello all.  This is a great thread.  I too am just about to purchase a 1964 Mooney M20C.  I noticed many of you are from Texas.  I am a Dallas native.  Good to know there are some fellow Mooney pilots around.  I am curious what you cost for you annual etc wound up being if you would not mind sharing?  The plane I am considering is very similar to your situation oddly enough.  I am an experienced commercial pilot.  Flown many types of aircraft big and small.  However, I have never owned one.  The Mooney would be my first, but I think im on the right track here interms of value and efficiency.  Any tips you guys can give on Escrow aspects and the actual purchase process when it comes to negotiating logistics would be appreciated. Obviosuly I will be doing a thorough Pre-buy, but would like more details on proper way to flow the process.  Again, really great info here.  Nice to have a forum like this when purchasing a vintage aircraft.  

SkydriverM20: Are you an AOPA member? Here's a link to their "All you need to know" including title and escrow services!

https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/buying-an-aircraft

[MBDiagMan]

Welcome Skydriver!  

You said you are from Dallas.  Do you still live in the Dallas area?

This is the second time I have bought a plane.  The first time I used AOPA for title and escrow work.  They did a good job, but I paid the entire bill as the seller.  This time I bought through a broker.  He used an independent title company in OKC, and I paid only half of the fee that was about half as much as the AOPA fee for a plane that cost roughly twice as much as the first.

As you read in this thread,  it is highly recommended that your prebuy be done by one of the Mooney factory service centers.  IMHO, I believe it has a lot to do with the history of the plane.  If it has been maintained with no expense spared by someone like Maxwell in Longview or Dugosh in Kerrville for a very long time, then get another set of Mooney experienced eyes on the plane.  It would be best for Maxwell or Dugosh to do the prebuy, but there are some other very good alternatives.  I was lucky because the plane was is in Kerrville where the factory is located, so there were many savvy Mooney people in the area.

A great way to do an initial look is to put an IPhone up into the landing gear area and point it all around while taking a video.  Then send the video to a Mooney IA and let him look for corrosion.

When buying the plane, negotiate a purchase price, then do the prebuy and see what they find.  If there is anything of significant cost tha must be done, negotiate this with the seller.  If they do not want to pay for it, you can pay for it yourself or walk away being out the cost of the prebuy inspection.  Might be a big pill to swallow, but might be money well spent.  

You will have probably put up a deposit before the prebuy.  The seller will probably have put the title in escrow.  You may have already put the purchase price in escrow.  Once you work the prebuy process, you will authorize the title company to release the funds to the seller.  You will already have submitted a title application, so they will initiate the title application for you at that point and the aircraft will be yours at that point.

hope you find all this rambling to be useful.  Feel free to ask more questions.

[MBDiagMan]

Spent about 4 hours and about fifteen landings in her today!

It was in the heat of the day and the rough air bothered me at first but as I got the feel of the plane it didn't bother me.  I did steep turns and holding heading/altitude.  I got the feel of the airplane pretty fast.  Push come to shove I could solo right now and not bend it or hurt myself.

I have to get up to speed on the 430 and do some landings elsewhere for the experience.  I was a little concerned at first and still need a day of weather, for the endorsement, but I feel very good about the purchase.  The Mooney transition pilot that brought it here was impressed and thought that I bought it for or th the money.

[carusoam]

MbdMan,

Do you get to do it again tomorrow?

You might get an interesting effect on the following day...

All the learning and practice can be cognitively draining.  After a good night's rest, the training and practice are fortified with a brain that isn't tired.  

See how much better the second day goes...

If it is a week before you get to fly again, the second day effect gets erased by the effects of rust setting in... but the day after that, the rust is wiped clean and the fun begins again...

Fun stuff I learned by taking too much time off from flying...  

Best regards,

-a-

[MBDiagMan]

Well, the weather is closing in and I will have to send this wonderful instructor home without me being finished.:(  At least the plane is here and I am off to a good start.  This means I won't fly again until a week from Monday at the earliest since we will be gone for the whole spring break.  Aviation teaches patience.

Another bad thing is that it will be in the weather for that week.

[MBDiagMan]

Well a lot has happened since my previous post.  It really looked as if we had no weather.  About 10AM the ceiling went up just enough for me to make landings, did a short trip and a few landings at a different airport and did an engine out landing that the instructor said was one of the very best he had seen.  

He had to go home tonight and I sure wish I could have flown with him tomorrow.  I flew good enough for him to give me the endorsement, but I won't be able to fly again until I get back from spring break.  That will be ten days if the weather is good when I get back.  There will be rust from that trip.  I will fly with my local Mooney instructor a little and then should be ready to consider myself a Mooney pilot.

I have a sore palm on my right hand from handling the gear.  I have the technique down reasonably well, but I have trouble with the button.  I learned that it works best if you retract the gear very shortly after takeoff even if there is lots of runway left.

The plane is wonderful.  The interior leaves something to be desired, but overall the plane is great

[gsxrpilot]

Congrats on getting the endorsement and check out.

Vintage Mooney pilots tend to have a reputation around the airport.  You look like a bit of a hot dog, when the gear disappears so quickly and immediately after breaking ground.  But in reality, we know that that's just SOP for manual gear Mooney's. If you wait for the traditional "no useable runway", the gear is very heavy and difficult to swing.  Also, with the manual gear, you can extend them just as quick. So the "no useable runway" really isn't relevant anymore.

You'll need to come down to central Texas and do some formation flying with us, once you get the hang of that bird.

[Hank]

Even with my electric gear, I don't wait for "usable runway" to go by. Once I confirm positive climb rate, they go up and are usually tucked away by treetop level. Jbar folks are usually even faster! The climb rate is just so much better with the gear up! And unlike many other retracts, the gear goes up quickly, and doesn't create gobs of extra drag a la the brand C wounded duck gear swing . . . Get 'em up and get gone!

[Skates97]

What I've read everywhere and in practice is 80 mph is the sweet spot for retracting gear. A smooth rotation at about 70 mph doesn't leave much time passing 80 mph to pull the gear unless you are climbing fast for obstacle clearance. 

Once I'm climbing the gear is up followed by flaps. Between 80-90 mph is not too hard to raise it, but if I'm closer to 90 mph I just pitch up a little and then swing it. You'll get the hang of it. Most of the time I'm really smooth with it now but you should have seen me for the first 20 or so times retracting it... 

[cnoe]

... but if I'm closer to 90 mph I just pitch up a little and then swing it.

FWIW, being of small stature when I was still flying an E I'd usually do the Mooney-wave on departure which makes gear retraction a breeze. Simply unload the wing for a brief moment* as you unlock and swing the bar. It lessens the required force considerably.

* Note that this doesn't mean "dive the plane". Just a quick little push is all it takes with NO altitude loss. It's the next best thing to an electric gear.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, cnoe said:

 

FWIW, being of small stature when I was still flying an E I'd usually do the Mooney-wave on departure which makes gear retraction a breeze. Simply unload the wing for a brief moment* as you unlock and swing the bar. It lessens the required force considerably.

* Note that this doesn't mean "dive the plane". Just a quick little push is all it takes with NO altitude loss. It's the next best thing to an electric gear.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

As I think through my actions that's a better explanation of what I'm trying to say. If I get too fast, pitching up momentarily reduces speed and then as I push the yoke forward back to normal climb attitude is when I'm retracting.

[MBDiagMan]

The downside of all this Mooney training is that while I am enjoying Spring Break in the beach house, a little bit of me will be looking for it to be over so I can go make more sores in the palm of my hand with the Johnson bar.

[MBDiagMan]

SQWUAKS!:

Maybe you guys can comment on some of the small sqwauks I have with the plane:

The right side fuel guage stays on full.  Do the senders ever hang up or break?

ASI is very cloudy.  I am thinking that it is just filmed up on the inside of the glass.  Can the glass be removed for cleaning?

The range buttons on the 430 Don't want to work every time.

 

thanks for your comments.  Seems like I am forgetting one.

 

[carusoam]

Ancient fuel gauges can stick or they can wear.  They can also be replaced for digital accuracy.

Instruments can be OH'd, which can include being repainted and having their glass cleaned...

Seach for sticky buttons on Garmin GPS. That can be expensive....

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 11, 2017 by carusoam