Mid-Air at non-towered airport

[bonal]

Yesterday approaching WLW made my normal position calls and intentions for the arrival there were a few arriving and departing as I approached. One fellow that called his departure and position but not type seemed unaware of me as he continued towards us even though I made a few radio calls directly to him I was on the left base as he was down wind but turning toward me all the while. I rocked my wings to improve his site picture before making my turn to final (this was the best turn to increase separation) and I never lost site until he passed behind us. I know my radio was working since I got replies from other traffic. Don't know why this guy did not respond since he was on CTAF he was close enough to see me give him the finger if I would have done that. The bee hive is a dangerous place when we have to rely on others to be smart and observant. We accept this and I hope all fly smart sadly not always the case.

[DaV8or]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:

lookout when making non-standard turns (this trainer turned base sooner than normal, leading to a short final, while the Bo was on a normal-to-long final, and they ended up cutting under it).

Where did you get this information? It sure isn't in the NTSB preliminary. I don't believe it. An aircraft with a bubble canopy, turning a close in base would have plenty of time to see a very large approaching Bonanza just next to them. A Bonanza pilot would have been able to see the DA-20 on base. It doesn't mesh with the NTSB prelim either. It sounds to me more like the Bo chased the DA-20 downwind, on base and caught up on final. This synopsis is consistent with neither aircraft being able to see each other. 

[DaV8or]

20 minutes ago, gsengle said:

Yes it does. It picks it up.

Yes we have to be alert. But let's be honest, see and avoid is a bit of a myth.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. I am a fan of traffic "gadgets" as they are called in forums. However, the majority of online forum posters are not fans. Neither do they think radios of much use either, or lighting.

[Hank]

23 minutes ago, DaV8or said:

Where did you get this information? It sure isn't in the NTSB preliminary. I don't believe it. An aircraft with a bubble canopy, turning a close in base would have plenty of time to see a very large approaching Bonanza just next to them. A Bonanza pilot would have been able to see the DA-20 on base. It doesn't mesh with the NTSB prelim either. It sounds to me more like the Bo chased the DA-20 downwind, on base and caught up on final. This synopsis is consistent with neither aircraft being able to see each other. 

Must have read it on PoA, that the trainer turned in short as if for a spot landing or simulated engine out, cutting in front if the Bo. There was quite spirited discussion there about pattern etiquette, radio use, NORDO aircraft, ADS-B, right of way, etc., in a long, long thread about this accident. True, though, the NTSB Preliminary doesn't mention it. Hopefully there will be enough information in the factual that we can both figure out what happened and learn how we can minimize our own chances of repeating it.

Personally, though, I have been tuned to the wrong frequency at least once . . .

[DaV8or]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:

 

Personally, though, I have been tuned to the wrong frequency at least once . . .

Yep, me too. This is where technology can eventually help. Our radios could easily be made to automatically tune to the correct frequency based on GPS location. Maybe the new units already do this, IDK.

[ArtVandelay]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:  

Personally, though, I have been tuned to the wrong frequency at least once . . .

Yep, me too. This is where technology can eventually help. Our radios could easily be made to automatically tune to the correct frequency based on GPS location. Maybe the new units already do this, IDK.

Modern GPS already tell you what frequency is tuned, they cant automatically tune because you might be still in touch with center.

[N9201A]

Pictures looked like Bo impacted trainer consistent with trainer being wing-up base to final, and Bo flying straight ahead. But as others have pointed out, it's all *complete* speculation until NTSB has done its grim but necessary work. How many "eyewitnasses" have we watched excitedly on camera about "flames spouting" from aircraft that crashed out of fuel or the like? Makes me wonder about eyewitness IDs in criminal cases, candidly...

And let's not get started on the general quality of reporting on general aviation incidents ...