Is it just me? Takeoff vs Landing in crosswind

[Bob - S50]

I disagree entirely. On takeoff you go from an environment of tight tolerances to an environment of looser ones. Landing is reversed. You have more room for being a bit off in the air than once back on the runway.

When you jump off the ground, it doesn't really matter if you continue to track the centerline perfectly or a little bit off. You have air, you have speed, and you have space. If you begin to drift, you have assurance that in a few knots of speed, you can just jump off the ground and deal with it in the air. Also as you accelerate down the takeoff roll, controls are becoming more responsive.

On landing, you have to go from a more forgiving environment to the runway. Going from sideways to straight is harder than from straight to sideways. Once on the ground, the decelarating airplane tries to weathervane with diminishing aerodynamic control. Breaking action can cause the wheels to skid some and during skids you blow sideways or weathervane.

So although I see your point of the helplessness of the run out of control authority feeling on takeoff, you generally have assurance of things improving with speed and altitude. On landing, the situation becomes increasingly more demanding until off the runway.

 

I'm not concerned about the takeoff once airborne.  Its easy to establish a crab to maintain runway alignment.  However, while still on the ground, wheel contact is what keeps me rolling straight down the runway.  As speed increases so does lift on the wings.  This reduces wheel contact pressure.  Any bump that lightens that load is enough that I can start to drift downwind.  The closer I get to takeoff speed, the less control I have.  On landing, once I make contact with the ground, I am once again using primarily ground contact for control and that is increasing as my speed decreases.

 

With years of flying, I find it relatively easy to maintain a crab until in the flare, then switch to cross controls until touchdown while maintaining the centerline.  However, I personally just find it more difficult to maintain centerline while rolling down the runway for takeoff, especially once the speed builds to about 50 KIAS or so.

 

I was just curious if others felt the same way.

 

Bob

[Bob - S50]

Bob try half the flap setting than the TO flaps setting. It works very well for me. If the cross winds are strong and gusty I use no flaps. On wavy runways I use no flaps because the nose wheel will bounce.

If you need to keep forward pressure on the yoke on take off check the trim setting. Try using more down trim. Check also the trim indicator calibration. Pushing on the yoke on take off can cause a prop strike.

José

 

I was concerned about too much forward pressure causing a prop strike too, that's why I only apply a little forward pressure to keep the nosewheel firmly planted for directional control.

 

I haven't tried a no flap takeoff though.  Do you find it helps a lot?  If so, how much does it increase your lift off speed?  Does it take a significantly different trim setting?

 

Bob

[PMcClure]

If you keep too much pressure on the yoke for too long (too fast), you will start wheelbarrowing and yes could cause a prop strike. But if a gust causes you to lift off before the plane is ready, you are looking at a lot more trouble. Positive control and awareness of airspeeds is what I suggest. 

[Hank]

 

I haven't tried a no flap takeoff though.  Do you find it helps a lot?  If so, how much does it increase your lift off speed?  Does it take a significantly different trim setting?

 

Get thee out and learn in good conditions! For me, it's < 1000'. I generally set the bottom of the trim indicator at the top of the Takeoff notch. If using flaps, I'm either heavy or the field is short, and I center the trim indicator on the Takeoff position.

Crosswind takeoffs aren't much of a problem, just hold her on the ground for 3-5 mph higher than normal (~75 mph works for me), then lift briskly into the air so it doesn't weathervane while in contact, and establish normal climb attitude while crabbing in runway direction.

[Piloto]

I was concerned about too much forward pressure causing a prop strike too, that's why I only apply a little forward pressure to keep the nosewheel firmly planted for directional control.

 

I haven't tried a no flap takeoff though.  Do you find it helps a lot?  If so, how much does it increase your lift off speed?  Does it take a significantly different trim setting?

 

Bob

No flaps take off run is a little bit longer. But more firm and stable. Minimum or no trimming required after airborne. It is similar to take off on heavier planes. There is no different trim setting required. Depending on the trim setting and loading you may need to pull on the yoke slightly to rotate.

José

[gsxrpilot]

If I'm landing or taking off from anything over 4000' long, I don't use flaps. I just don't see the point.

[fantom]

Don't know if this is kosher or not, but I am blessed with a nice wide runway at home, so on takeoff into a stiff crosswind I start my takeoff roll at the downwind edge of the runway,  nose-down, and down aileron and right rudder as necessary, add power, and angle toward the upwind corner of the runway, gradually straightening the flight path as the speed builds. This cuts my crosswind component considerably.

 

Not only kosher, but good practice and quite smart!

[Guest Mike261]

on initial takeoff you have no historical data to cue you as to what the control inputs should be, its trial and error. on your landing if you are in a stabilized approach and you have established proper crosswind correction before you enter the flare. when I was flying with students if they had nailed the correction on landing I would have them hold the same correction add rudder for p factor and execute a touch and go. they know the input forces from the landing and the takeoff correction is close to those forces, a nice crosswind takeoff follows. this all goes out the window if its shifty wind, but illustrates how on takeoff number one you don't have an exact feel for the current winds. 

[IvoryM]

I totally agree. I much rather land in a crosswind than take off.

[DaV8or]

You guys need more crosswind runways where you fly!! I think the single runway airport is a conspiracy by the tire manufacturers!

[Wesley brown]

At Our airpark we almost always have a total crosswind with winds changing directions at mid point becoming a tail wind. We have grown custom to this weird phenomenon. We only have 3000x40' runway. I just fly the plane during landing if it's gusty I only use half flaps with power, I usually find myself crabbing until very close to the numbers with a wing down on upwind side and right at touchdown opposite rudder and straighten the nose down the runway.

Departing I use no flaps and keep the plane on the ground gaining higher speeds 75-80 mph slight nose down pressure. After takeoff if it wants to crab a little I just watch it making sure my airspeed and climb rate is sufficient. After off the ground shortly straighten the plane.

A lot of experience that I have gained is from experimental, light sport and ultralights. You have to fly those things to the ground and maintain center line crabbing and flying into a cross wind to stay inline with the runway. If you lowered a wing it would still push you off centerline. I know that mooneys aren't ultralights!