MooneyBob Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 I have found few drops of fuel under my 1977 M20J this morning. I don't know what is that? Is there any concern flying until the annual in January? Quote
BigTex Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 Yep... Mine was just leaking from there as well... Time for a new/overhauled boost pump. Quote
jetdriven Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 Its likely the Dukes. There are 3 options I know of. An overhauled pump from the designated sole-source rebuilder, Quality Aircraft Accessories, for 1300$. An overhaul (using non-Dukes factory parts) for ~400$ from Aeromotors. And recently, a new option, a new Weldon 18020-A fuel pump for 800$. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/weldonpmapump08-10717.php?clickkey=1604776 From what I've read, its superior to the Dukes, no carbon seal that leaks, and no plastic vanes to break. It has a metal impeller and is rated for continuous duty. Here's what Dukes says about their raising of prices from 400$-to 800$, to now, 1300$. I love it. source: http://www.qaa.com/products/aircraft-fuel-pumps-1/dukes-fuel-pumps/1499-00-19NV-dukes-fuel-pump Dukes Fuel Pump 14 Volt Part#: 1499-00-19NV *Not all photographs represent the actual product for sale. Overhaul/Exchange Price: $1,295.00 Core: $400.00 H Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA) of Tulsa Oklahoma designated factory authorized overhaul source for Dukes General Aviation Fuel Pumps July 9, 2012 Northridge, CA. - California based Dukes Aerospace announces that it has designated Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA) as the only factory authorized overhaul source for Dukes General Aviation Fuel Pumps. This designation allows QAA to overhaul Dukes Fuel Pumps with the support of the Dukes factory to include manuals, drawings and 100% OEM detail parts. In an effort to provide even greater support to Dukes customers and the General Aviation community, Dukes has chosen to partner with QAA for repairs and overhauls of our General Aviation Fuel Pumps. Already one of Dukes largest customers for fuel pump overhauls, Dukes began to appreciate QAA’s commitment to the General Aviation aftermarket. Dukes Aerospace continues to remain fully committed to our line of General Aviation Fuel Pumps. Dukes has been manufacturing these pumps for over 50 years and has thousands in service. “Having the ability to overhaul Dukes Fuel Pumps at our facility in Tulsa, Oklahoma gives QAA control of the turnaround time. Our customers have come to expect their parts overhauled and returned to them in 10 days. By doing the work in house and with the support of the factory, we can now add Dukes Fuel Pumps to our list of parts that meet these expectations,” say Brett Benton, Chief Executive Officer, Quality Aircraft Accessories. “In addition to 10 day turnaround on overhauls, we will also have the full line of Dukes Fuel Pumps available on an exchange basis.” Quote
carusoam Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 A few new seals in the electric boost pump...(last year, 20 years old) Best regards, -a- Quote
MooneyBob Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Posted November 23, 2014 Its likely the Dukes. There are 3 options I know of. An overhauled pump from the designated sole-source rebuilder, Quality Aircraft Accessories, for 1300$. An overhaul (using non-Dukes factory parts) for ~400$ from Aeromotors. And recently, a new option, a new Weldon 18020-A fuel pump for 800$. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/weldonpmapump08-10717.php?clickkey=1604776 From what I've read, its superior to the Dukes, no carbon seal that leaks, and no plastic vanes to break. It has a metal impeller and is rated for continuous duty. Here's what Dukes says about their raising of prices from 400$-to 800$, to now, 1300$. I love it. source: http://www.qaa.com/products/aircraft-fuel-pumps-1/dukes-fuel-pumps/1499-00-19NV-dukes-fuel-pump Dukes Fuel Pump 14 Volt Part#: 1499-00-19NV *Not all photographs represent the actual product for sale. Overhaul/Exchange Price: $1,295.00 Core: $400.00 H Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA) of Tulsa Oklahoma designated factory authorized overhaul source for Dukes General Aviation Fuel Pumps July 9, 2012 Northridge, CA. - California based Dukes Aerospace announces that it has designated Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA) as the only factory authorized overhaul source for Dukes General Aviation Fuel Pumps. This designation allows QAA to overhaul Dukes Fuel Pumps with the support of the Dukes factory to include manuals, drawings and 100% OEM detail parts. In an effort to provide even greater support to Dukes customers and the General Aviation community, Dukes has chosen to partner with QAA for repairs and overhauls of our General Aviation Fuel Pumps. Already one of Dukes largest customers for fuel pump overhauls, Dukes began to appreciate QAA’s commitment to the General Aviation aftermarket. Dukes Aerospace continues to remain fully committed to our line of General Aviation Fuel Pumps. Dukes has been manufacturing these pumps for over 50 years and has thousands in service. “Having the ability to overhaul Dukes Fuel Pumps at our facility in Tulsa, Oklahoma gives QAA control of the turnaround time. Our customers have come to expect their parts overhauled and returned to them in 10 days. By doing the work in house and with the support of the factory, we can now add Dukes Fuel Pumps to our list of parts that meet these expectations,” say Brett Benton, Chief Executive Officer, Quality Aircraft Accessories. “In addition to 10 day turnaround on overhauls, we will also have the full line of Dukes Fuel Pumps available on an exchange basis.” Any danger or concern to keep flying with this kind of leak until annual? Quote
lukejb Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 I have had a fuel leak coming from the fuel sump on the belly that you pull from the floor board for over a year. Not really sure what i need to do to get it fixed but i am getting tired of the blue spot on my hangar floor...... Quote
M016576 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 I have had a fuel leak coming from the fuel sump on the belly that you pull from the floor board for over a year. Not really sure what i need to do to get it fixed but i am getting tired of the blue spot on my hangar floor...... 2 new 30 cent orings will fix that problem. Tools required- 7/8" socket, safety wire and the orings. You should really fix that though: air can get in your fuel line there.... Quote
Hank Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 Cut the side out of an oil can and put it under the drip. Then shut off the fuel before pushing into the hangar. With practice, lining it up gets easier. Quote
carusoam Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 There may be a risk of pulling air through the leak, depending on what's leaking... That would cause a problem that would make you want to take care of it as soon as practical... Access to the electric pump on my plane is a smaller forward panel. Easy out, easy back in... Took a week to OH the pump. Same issues for the importance of the leaky drain, just bigger panels to get behind... Talk to your mechanic about methods of cleaning in place??? My 65C collected fine bits of rust in that system, smaller than the screen. Best regards, -a- Quote
lukejb Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 Do you know what size o-ring? If it is by chance the same size as the smaller o-ring for the gas cap i should already have them. If not i might need a detailed description from you to add to my next parts order.... I thought they would have fixed it at annual. i forgot to point it out but i assumed the blue spot on mechanics hangar would have prompted them to replace.... Quote
takair Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 I have found few drops of fuel under my 1977 M20J this morning. I don't know what is that? Is there any concern flying until the annual in January? Keep in mind that this drain is in case the wet side of the pump leaks to the dry side. Keep in mind that the dry side has electricity. So, beyond the possibility of pulling air, you have fuel where you don't want it. The drain is designed to take most of it away, but it is telling you to change/fix the pump before something worse happens. I would recommend not waiting too long. Quote
bonal Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 And they call it a weep hole. Very common on motors that have engine driven water pumps. Keeps water and oil separated and it also lest you know witch side O ring needs replacing Quote
jetdriven Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 Do you know what size o-ring? If it is by chance the same size as the smaller o-ring for the gas cap i should already have them. If not i might need a detailed description from you to add to my next parts order.... I thought they would have fixed it at annual. i forgot to point it out but i assumed the blue spot on mechanics hangar would have prompted them to replace.... It's not a fuel sump o-ring. It's the carbon shaft seal in the fuel pump. Quote
lukejb Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 So from reading this thread it seems if it is leaking fuel from this spot the general consensus is it is time to overhaul the boost pump. If the boost pump is still operating correctly can you just simply replace some seals? Quote
ArtVandelay Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 I would have it IRANed by an expert technician, might prevent further problems 1 Quote
jetdriven Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 So from reading this thread it seems if it is leaking fuel from this spot the general consensus is it is time to overhaul the boost pump. If the boost pump is still operating correctly can you just simply replace some seals? Nothing in that pump is field replaceable. You can have it overhauled at QAA, overhauled at Aeromotors, or get the Weldon. The Weldon is a superior design and the middle cost option. Quote
lukejb Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 Well I went out to hangar to take a look at it. It is actually dripping from sump that comes off of fuel selector valve not the weep or whatever it is called that MooneyBob posted a picture of. The weep he posted pic of is located about a foot in front of my leaky sump. So in this case would it be as simple as replacing an O-ring? Oh and BTW I checked fuel boost pump and unfortunately looks like I have the Dukes and not the Weldon Quote
N601RX Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 If it's leaking from the fuel selector drain, it may just need the seat and plunger cleaned. I had to do this a couple of years ago and have not had any more problems with it. Quote
BigTex Posted November 23, 2014 Report Posted November 23, 2014 Luke, that's actually good news. Contact LASAR and they will rebuild it for $225. Just did mine and they do a fantastic job. Also, Dukes are not as bad as some folks say. 1 Quote
DrBill Posted November 24, 2014 Report Posted November 24, 2014 I have a used Dukes for sale in the classifieds so you can get it rebuilt then swap with minimal downtime. BBILL Quote
carusoam Posted November 24, 2014 Report Posted November 24, 2014 Put a catch can under it... Drain a gallon of fuel out of it, working the plunger up and down a hundred or so times... Inspect the catch can to see if any dirt particles have shown up... Then have the valve rebuilt if necessary, as described above. Some people have use the fuel sampler cup to press the valve up, from outside. (I don't know about this one) Use caution, fuel is dangerously flammable... Ideas that come to mind, -a- 1 Quote
M016576 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Posted November 25, 2014 It's not a fuel sump o-ring. It's the carbon shaft seal in the fuel pump. What Luke was originally describing as his problem was a slow leak from his gascolator (he referred to it as the sump that comes from pulling the ring in the floorboard). Luke- I can't remember the size of the two o-rings off hand- I recommend taking a picture of where it's leaking from and sending that picture to LASAR- they can tell you exactly which o-rings you'll need. While you have the gascolator open, you can also replace the gascolator screen (for about $2.00) with a new one from spruce, if it's gunky. Quote
M016576 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Posted November 25, 2014 It's not a fuel sump o-ring. It's the carbon shaft seal in the fuel pump. What Luke was originally describing as his problem was a slow leak from his gascolator (he referred to it as the sump that comes from pulling the ring in the floorboard). Luke- I can't remember the size of the two o-rings off hand- I recommend taking a picture of where it's leaking from and sending that picture to LASAR- they can tell you exactly which o-rings you'll need. While you have the gascolator open, you can also replace the gascolator screen (for about $2.00) with a new one from spruce, if it's gunky. 1 Quote
triple8s Posted November 28, 2014 Report Posted November 28, 2014 I had a leak from the gascolator a few years back and it was a slow leak I thought I'll just turn off the fuel selector. I found out that if this is done the leak will continue till the fuel in the line from valve to gascolator is empty. When I went to start up after the fuel was shut off, I could tell there was air in the fuel line and it took awhile of running on the ground to smooth out. I have to say that is not a confidence builder! My mechanic took the sump apart and there were some nylon looking plastic pieces that he replaced, the cost was forgettable. It isn't worth not fixing right away, as my Canadian friend says, "these engines require three things to run, fuel, fire and air, dont be cheap when it comes to fuel or ignition systems." 1 Quote
Hank Posted November 28, 2014 Report Posted November 28, 2014 Running the fuel pump before start up will refill the fuel line to crank up. I do so regardless, until fuel pressure stops increasing, and turn the pump off. Quote
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