eAPIS/ crossing Canadian border...

[The-sky-captain]

I'm going to a small border town in Canada in a couple weeks. I've never crossed the border, filed eAPIS or dealt with customs. I can land on the U.S. side and drive 45 minutes to my destination or cross the border and land much closer. Is filing, dealing with customs worth saving the 45 minutes drive? I know there are sites on how to do this but I'm more interested on first hand accounts of it's difficulty/ time it requires to file and deal with customs.

[WardHolbrook]

I've flown to Canada 100's of times. Crossing into Canada is almost always a total non-event. Coming back is not much more involved. The e-APIS thing is a total pain in the arse, but those sites you mention take away most of the headache. (The site I personally use is Flashpass.com) Personally, if it's just a 45 minute drive, that's what I'd do. Remember, like the USA, you must also land first at an approved airport of entry in Canada. Depending upon where you're crossing point is, you will save that much time and maybe even more. Check with your rental car company however, not all of them will let you drive across the border.

[The-sky-captain]

Thanks for the tips Ward. Family will be picking us up so it looks like landing on the U.S. side is what I'll do and take the short commute from there.

[Cruiser]

Bodie,

 

If you are only 45 minutes from your destination by car you are probably going to save time and stress by driving. Although border crossing into the USA should be straight forward there is always a chance something out of the ordinary might happen. 

 

I would drive and not open yourself, the plane or passengers to any possible hassle.

[Guest]

In most cases you are cleared into Canada by making a phone call.

Clarence

[Robert C.]

Don't you also need a CBP decal and FCC radio license decal? I've just gone through the process and am now waiting for those stickers to go on the airplane.

AOPA has a piece on their website that describes what you need to do.

If it's a one-off you're better off driving, it takes more than 1.5 hrs and the gas cost to go through the application process

[Danb]

Bodie..I go to Windsor a few times a year ..but land in Detroit and drive the 40 minutes which is must faster than dealing with US customs..never had a problem with Canada's border but it seems like the dudes in USA have a hard on or something..once in Niagra falls I cleared in..I was met with an agent who pulled guns on me wife and daughter .told me to shut up and get out of the plane NOW...my wife will now not leave the U.S. in our plane, cuts out Bahamas etc....

[The-sky-captain]

Bodie..I go to Windsor a few times a year ..but land in Detroit and drive the 40 minutes which is must faster than dealing with US customs..never had a problem with Canada's border but it seems like the dudes in USA have a hard on or something..once in Niagra falls I cleared in..I was met with an agent who pulled guns on me wife and daughter .told me to shut up and get out of the plane NOW...my wife will now not leave the U.S. in our plane, cuts out Bahamas etc....

Yikes, that's crazy! I just mapped it and the drive is only 21 miles from the airport on the U.S. side to my Canadian destination (Ogdensburg NY- Brockville Ontario) By car it will be.

[FloridaMan]

Keep in mind that customs agents are trained to be belligerent a-holes. I regard this as generally a good thing, as I would want anyone who isn't supposed to be here to not be allowed in. Keep this in mind as you deal with them and do not take anything personally if you find yourself with someone who's a bit hostile. 

[kortopates]

I know we all read the stories and theoretically at least per Mark Baker, there has not been a single CBP stop of a GA aircraft ever since AOPA had their meeting with them after taking them to task and getting Senators involved to get CBP to show where they had the authority to do this. But they don't - legally they must have real probably cause. So hopefully this is the end of it.

 

From someone that has been crossing the border in his Mooney for over a dozen years I can tell you the real time consuming issue is merely learning the ropes and perhaps going through the process for the first time to get your decal, eAPIS account and password - but mostly just the initial logistics. Once you know the process and am prepared, it takes 5-10 min max to clear US customs coming home. As Clarence point out - Canadian customs is almost always just a phone call, from which you write down a number and your done. There is really no reason to fear this. Just study the process and abide by the rules and always take advantage of your ability to call Flight Service on the radio at least 30 min out from your arrival to ask them to update Customs with your latest ETA - its that easy to be on time every time.

 

My only deviation from the 5-10 min rule was once at Ketchikan, coming in from Canada, I had to wait what seemed like an hour for the US Customs officer to come across on the ferry, and then the 5-10 min process was completed.  But that's pretty unusual.

 

BTW, You do need a decal (or a receipt that you purchased it online) but you don't really need a FCC radio licenses (aircraft station nor operator). AOPA list it because its the law but nobody (canada, mexico, bahama's etc) cares. Also despite the rules on where to place the CBP decal, you pretty much can put it anywhere you like that is visible to the agent. I place mine out of sight under the horizontal stab. I point to it when asked and no one complains. 

[carusoam]

Sounds like a Mooney adventure!

With support like this how could you drive across the border?

I made the same decision once...

On my way to Toronto for a wedding. Instead of having a great IFR border crossing story to share, I have a great car rental story from somewhere in Danville, NY. We ate at McDs, within walking distance to the field. The Great Lakes were serving up some nice low clouds that day. The 180 turn was our plan B. My son made the trip memorable, he filled a ziploc bag late in the final approach.

But now I have my IR happy ending.

Bodie, go make IT happen!

God supplied us Mooneys for a reason.

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

How is it that all of main land Europe can exist without borders, guns and rude customs officials?

Clarence

[yvesg]

On my last US entry, after we were allowed to get out of the plane and follow the officers in a room, they refused to allow me to go take a leak in the washroom next to us until ALL the paperwork was completed. I was not starting to see yellow yet however I was about 10 minutes away from this.

Next time I'll use the airborne appareatus in case they do this to me again before I land there. (Was Port Huron)

Yves

[Danb]

On my foray into Niagra the F BO told me afterward that the agent forgot I was coming in,was at lunch,we had to be in a holding pattern for 45 minutes until he arrived pissed, the F B O told me he's an AH and I'm not the first one he's treated like a criminal he was goin to tear my Mooney apart for drugs and gave me a taught speech about being a drug runner..the bastard never even looked for drugs..gave me an official warning..which I think if I have a problem in. 5 yrs it will be held against me..the 5 yrs have passed and I still haven't left the country in my Bravo..,We are going to Montreal soon and will Drive across the border which is a long trek. I tried tell my wife for us to pay the fee and have a Philly agent come to Wilmington. No luck....

[chrisk]

On my foray into Niagra the F BO told me afterward that the agent forgot I was coming in,was at lunch,we had to be in a holding pattern for 45 minutes until he arrived pissed, the F B O told me he's an AH and I'm not the first one he's treated like a criminal he was goin to tear my Mooney apart for drugs and gave me a taught speech about being a drug runner..the bastard never even looked for drugs..gave me an official warning..which I think if I have a problem in. 5 yrs it will be held against me..the 5 yrs have passed and I still haven't left the country in my Bravo..,We are going to Montreal soon and will Drive across the border which is a long trek. I tried tell my wife for us to pay the fee and have a Philly agent come to Wilmington. No luck....

Official warning for what?  Did you get a letter in the mail?

[Danb]

No I was given it at the airport. The warning stated I did not provide the 2 hour notification which I did, I also put it in adcus in the remarks even though I know it does not provide the notification. This all happened a few years ago prior to epis, I carry the notice with my logbook also it stated I could have been fined $5000 and have my plane confiscated...

[Guest]

On my last US entry, after we were allowed to get out of the plane and follow the officers in a room, they refused to allow me to go take a leak in the washroom next to us until ALL the paperwork was completed. I was not starting to see yellow yet however I was about 10 minutes away from this.

Next time I'll use the airborne appareatus in case they do this to me again before I land there. (Was Port Huron)

Yves

Yves,

Next time fill the bottle and pass it to him as you climb out.

Clarence

[BorealOne]

The same a-hole officer must work in Burlington Vt - I got the 5k speech and Official Warning as well.

My crime was arriving later than my stated ETA -- this after leaving several voice mails advising of a change in my Eta that he was 'too busy' to deal with. Note that this is an airport based customs officer at an international airport, my landing was within working hours, and my eapis and paperwork were otherwise in order.

He reasoned that the rule was I needed to speak with a customs officer prior to landing. 

I've avoided Burlington since.





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[rockydoc]

For the past 20 years, I have flown in and out of the USA from Mexico.  Filing an eAPIS on-line is a non-issue and should not serve as a deterrent to your flight.  What should serve as a deterrent to you is the treatment that you "might" experieince from CBP and HLS.  If you read my experience in another thread about my treatment from HLS in KNEW you can understand why I have nothing but disdain for Agent Lous Weaver and the HLS.  They are arrogant pricks who thrive on intimidation and bullying tactics--why...because they can.  Try doing what I did, respectfully  denying them entry to my airplane (although I knew they would find nothing because there was nothing to find) and, after excessive bullying, exercising my right to have an attorney present--only to be told that my wife and I could go, but we couldn't take our airplane or any of our belongings!!!!  Who is their right mind would subject themselves and their family to this type of, lest I say, Gustapo treatment when you rent a car and drive 21 miles to your destination.  No choice in my book!!!!

Rocky

[kortopates]

For the past 20 years, I have flown in and out of the USA from Mexico.  Filing an eAPIS on-line is a non-issue and should not serve as a deterrent to your flight.  What should serve as a deterrent to you is the treatment that you "might" experieince from CBP and HLS.  If you read my experience in another thread about my treatment from HLS in KNEW you can understand why I have nothing but disdain for Agent Lous Weaver and the HLS.  They are arrogant pricks who thrive on intimidation and bullying tactics--why...because they can.  Try doing what I did, respectfully  denying them entry to my airplane (although I knew they would find nothing because there was nothing to find) and, after excessive bullying, exercising my right to have an attorney present--only to be told that my wife and I could go, but we couldn't take our airplane or any of our belongings!!!!  Who is their right mind would subject themselves and their family to this type of, lest I say, Gustapo treatment when you rent a car and drive 21 miles to your destination.  No choice in my book!!!!

Rocky

Actually I think its because of people like yourself that stood up and spread word to folks at AOPA and other groups including Jack at BBP, that Mark Baker of AOPA was able to get the support of Senators interested enough that CBP has now altered their policy in recognition they have no authority to interdict aircraft without legitimate probably cause. Although we can't be certain its the end of these ridiculous encounters, it is very promising that Mark Baker is able to report that their hasn't been a single such unlawful interdiction since their meeting with them resulted in the policy change. 

 

I honestly don't know how much AOPA played a role in bringing all this positive change about, but from where I sit I am very pleased with their performance. Also AOPA's representative of Mexico, Rick Gardner of Caribbean Sky Tours, was able to bring about another great recent change by allowing us to meet Mexican APIS reporting requirements by emailing an excel spreadsheet to an email address at Mexico's INM and get a email confirmation back. This is also great news since it eliminates the need to pay a third party like Fltplan.com to file Mx APIS via the ARINC interface. I am pretty pleased recently with AOPA and Mark Baker and optimistic at seeing continued progress.

[rockydoc]

Actually I think its because of people like yourself that stood up and spread word to folks at AOPA and other groups including Jack at BBP, that Mark Baker of AOPA was able to get the support of Senators interested enough that CBP has now altered their policy in recognition they have no authority to interdict aircraft without legitimate probably cause. Although we can't be certain its the end of these ridiculous encounters, it is very promising that Mark Baker is able to report that their hasn't been a single such unlawful interdiction since their meeting with them resulted in the policy change. 

 

I honestly don't know how much AOPA played a role in bringing all this positive change about, but from where I sit I am very pleased with their performance. Also AOPA's representative of Mexico, Rick Gardner of Caribbean Sky Tours, was able to bring about another great recent change by allowing us to meet Mexican APIS reporting requirements by emailing an excel spreadsheet to an email address at Mexico's INM and get a email confirmation back. This is also great news since it eliminates the need to pay a third party like Fltplan.com to file Mx APIS via the ARINC interface. I am pretty pleased recently with AOPA and Mark Baker and optimistic at seeing continued progress.

Thanks for sharing that latest up-date on current position of CBP.   Maybe this means I won't be experiencing retaliation for my cooperation with AOPA's Mark Baker in bringing my case to the attention of HLS.  When the HLS agent, Louis Weaver, had the FAA come out and declare my airplane Unairworthy, I felt quite vulnerable for continued retaliation.  I'll keep my fingers crossed.  I might add one note, though, when i cleared CBP three days ago on a commercial flight, the immigration agent, after looking at her computer screen, said to me, "Are you a pilot?"  Hmmmmm   More personal info on me in a government data base.  Also, Rick Gardner is a great guy.  He has been very helpful to me over the years.

Rocky

[rockydoc]

Just received "Proof" that Big Brother is watching me since my encounter with HLS at KNEW.  I received an email in my private email account which started off by saying, "Hi Rocky."  It went on to say that it had come to the government's attention that when a particular airplane that I had previously been known to fly had left the USA without filing an eAPIS flight plan with manifest.  It proceeded to outline the responsibilities of the PIC for submitting the form along with the penalties to the PIC for not having done that.  It then said that, "If I wanted to discuss this" with the sender to contact them at that email address.  Now, the reason I know they are watching me is because I was not the PIC on that flight nor was my name on the ATC exit flight plan that was filed nor was any email address of mine.   Being an attorney, I fully understand that they were on a fishing expedition trying to get me to give them information.  I have chosen to ignore this correspondence since it has nothing to do with me and I choose not to volunteer information.

Rocky

[aaronk25]

Actually I think its because of people like yourself that stood up and spread word to folks at AOPA and other groups including Jack at BBP, that Mark Baker of AOPA was able to get the support of Senators interested enough that CBP has now altered their policy in recognition they have no authority to interdict aircraft without legitimate probably cause. Although we can't be certain its the end of these ridiculous encounters, it is very promising that Mark Baker is able to report that their hasn't been a single such unlawful interdiction since their meeting with them resulted in the policy change.

I honestly don't know how much AOPA played a role in bringing all this positive change about, but from where I sit I am very pleased with their performance. Also AOPA's representative of Mexico, Rick Gardner of Caribbean Sky Tours, was able to bring about another great recent change by allowing us to meet Mexican APIS reporting requirements by emailing an excel spreadsheet to an email address at Mexico's INM and get a email confirmation back. This is also great news since it eliminates the need to pay a third party like Fltplan.com to file Mx APIS via the ARINC interface. I am pretty pleased recently with AOPA and Mark Baker and optimistic at seeing continued progress.

Mexican Eapis???? Yes I'm aware it exists but, last February I landed in Cozumel, playa del camen, Cancun and Merida.....ZERO...officials even knew what it was and never heard of it before.

[carusoam]

That sounds a bit "phishy"?

Like someone is trying to get something.

Are you confident that it is a real government entity that sent the email?

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

Mexican Eapis???? Yes I'm aware it exists but, last February I landed in Cozumel, playa del camen, Cancun and Merida.....ZERO...officials even knew what it was and never heard of it before.

Most know about it and have for some time. But enforcement has not yet begun, meaning it is still not necessary to file. How longs that last is anyone guess but now that they are offering the alternative way file by email for free, there is little reason not to file IMO. But Mexico City has said they'll give notice of when enforcement is to begin. We'll see.