Speed Brakes

[TWinter]

I know this is a old topic, but just looking for the short version. I've been thinking about trading up in Mooney models, but unfortunately most that I have been looking the owners are pretty firm on pricing and that is fair enough. I also have so much tied up in 7741M that I am also pretty firm on what I think it's worth. So bottom line life is good keeping my bird, on the bright side I know my plane and know what's been done so far.

 

With that in mind the mods will continue. Has anyone had speed brakes installed recently and if so who did the work and what was the approximate cost? I have a 73 E model and am thinking this would be my next upgrade. I know I've mentioned electric trim and received some feedback on that. That is also on my agenda. Any info on the cost or best source for the speed brake kit itself, amount of typical labor time involved and other things to look out for with the speed brakes.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Bob_Belville]

Tom,

 

http://preciseflight.com/general-aviation/shop/speedbrakes/products/speedbrakes-mooney/

 

Precise Flight seems to still be offering the speed brakes.  My E got them in 1997. At that time the parts cost $3000 and the time to install was 30 hours. Mine are manual but since the website refers the 12 or 24 volt they must be electric now. Price on the site is $4995. 

[TWinter]

Thanks Bob, I'll check them out. I saw a complete set on either the forum or EBay several months ago. Price was pretty good, but I wasn't sure what direction I was going with the plane. I guess I should have jumped on them.

 

Kind of off topic, but in a few months I'm heading up to New England for vacation. Trying to hit some of the coast. If I remember correctly you enjoy New England flying.

 

Plan to fly from Tennessee (DYR) to Portsmouth, NH (PSM)- to Sanford, ME (SFM) and finally Bar Harbor, Maine (KBHB) then back to Portsmouth, NH for a week vacation and finally back home to TN. Should be gone about three weeks or so. Can't wait..I'll be going VFR, but with careful planning and no time restrictions all should be good. 

[Danb]

Tom, I should visit dry some time..I make trips to uta and or gpt a couple times a year to provide the economy some schekles

[Bob_Belville]

Tom, my plane is still stuck in MA waiting the engine. Monday will be 3 months. At the rate we're going I might want to hitch a ride. 

 

I really like the manual speed brakes. If you find those instead of the later electric version I think you'd be happy. 

 

Bob

[Marauder]

Tom, my plane is still stuck in MA waiting the engine. Monday will be 3 months. At the rate we're going I might want to hitch a ride.

Bob

Heck Bob! I thought when the time came we were going to shuttle you up the east coast like one of those Pilots N Paws flights. We were just going to call it a Pilots N Bob flight!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TWinter]

Still can't get my quotes to work right on the site..Anyway, Bob you will be in the air well before my trip and better than new. I'll explore the manual vs. electric. Thanks. 

 

PS. I'll be extra careful and on the watch for crappy taxiways will up there    

[SkyPilot]

I'm thinking about the speed brake mod for May. My flights take me from 2200' ASL up to 14500' to clear the mountains, and then down to sea level. I find that I have to do a long dog-leg to drop the altitude without shock cooling. If I could leave my power up I'd fly direct to destination and just pop the brakes and drop down nice and easy. I'll be putting in the electric ones.

 

Lucky for me, my mechanic is an experienced airframe guy and also charges only $50 per hour. I'm going to do the windshield upgrade at the same time.

My interior is still ugly, but it is comfortable. I'll do it last because it doesn't improve the performance other than a little weight loss maybe.

 

Like TWinter, I have too much in my airplane to sell it without a huge loss, and if I can't sell it I can't buy a faster one. May as well just keep playing with the one I've got..

[carusoam]

If you have the hydraulic flaps, the manual speed brakes seem like a nice match.

If you have electric gear, the electric speed brakes do make sense.

If your E is your final plane, upgrade like there's no tomorrow.

If the electric drive weighs a lot, go manual.

If your thought processes are slowed or will be slowed while you own the plane, go electric.

If your E is a stepping stone to another plane, save the money to buy brakes in your J, R or TN...

If you can buy them used at 1/2 price, their a bargain.

They make a great tool more than they make an investment...

How does that sound?

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

If you have the hydraulic flaps, the manual speed brakes seem like a nice match.

If you have electric gear, the electric speed brakes do make sense.

If your E is your final plane, upgrade like there's no tomorrow.

If the electric drive weighs a lot, go manual.

If your thought processes are slowed or will be slowed while you own the plane, go electric.

If your E is a stepping stone to another plane, save the money to buy brake in your J, R or TN...

If you can buy them used at 1/2 price, their a bargain.

They make a great tool more than they make an investment...

How does that sound?

Best regards,

-a-

 

Anthony -- do you know if Precise Flight sells the manual version any more? All I see for Mooneys are the electric ones. At $5k + install, it is getting up there.

[FBCK]

I believe there is some time to OH the Precise speed brakes so if you are buying used you may want to price that into the price as well, aks the question anyway.

[HopePilot]

Again, today speed brakes made my life easy as I had to descend from 8500 to 800 ft over some mountains to land.  I had mine installed right after I bought the plane and the 40 hours of installation is accurate.  I seem to always be based near mountains, so they've been indispensable.  I always hear people saying they're not needed (and I guess few things really are in life), but I've been very glad to have had them.  I haven't had to circle or do s-turns in years (unless asked to by ATC).

[Dave Marten]

Again, today speed brakes made my life easy as I had to descend from 8500 to 800 ft over some mountains to land.  I had mine installed right after I bought the plane and the 40 hours of installation is accurate.  I seem to always be based near mountains, so they've been indispensable.  I always hear people saying they're not needed (and I guess few things really are in life), but I've been very glad to have had them.  I haven't had to circle or do s-turns in years (unless asked to by ATC).

Same. Dropped into the LA basin last weekend and popped speed brakes descending out of 9500 over Cajon pass to get down to pattern alt at REI. Would not have made that direct descent w/o. Helped enable a downwind entry well ahead of the Cherokee traffic putting in from the south! Great tool to have in the bag, especially with the turbo!

[Dave Marten]

Tom,

 

If you are keeping the E then upgrade her even more extensively. If considering upgrading in the future I'd hold off, especially the speed brakes on an E for a flat-lander (no offense). If you're trying to get more zip out of the E maybe consider a powerflow exhaust, close up the cowling, remove ADF antenna,etc. IE, try to squeeze a couple more knots outta the old girl.

[TWinter]

All great points. Thanks much. I looked into the cowl enclosure..Yikes. I should have included that when I did my refi on her last year for my GTN750 and Stec. On the other hand you gotta pay to play $$. I really like the enclosures. More knots, better cooling and modern look. I've heard mixed reviews on the powerflow, but I'm sure there would be a few knots to gain. 

[231Pilot]

If I am flying into KSLC fro the east or the south, the speed brakes are extremely useful, even if coming from the west, the VFR approach involves a "chop and drop" to the east and then the north after crossing the approach end of the runways, speedbrakes are well worth the investment if your locale or your mission puts you in mountainous areas.

[BigTex]

If I am flying into KSLC fro the east or the south, the speed brakes are extremely useful, even if coming from the west, the VFR approach involves a "chop and drop" to the east and then the north after crossing the approach end of the runways, speedbrakes are well worth the investment if your locale or your mission puts you in mountainous areas.

 

I've always found the forward slip pretty effective...

[carusoam]

Chris,

At one time they were manual, then vacuum powered, and finally electric. Kind of like The progression of Corvette headlights...

I would believe that electric motor technology has improved enough that a small motor/clutch system is the modern way to go.

Website only mentions electric....

http://preciseflight.com/general-aviation/shop/speedbrakes/products/speedbrakes-mooney/

Installation would be slightly more on the manual system compared to electric. Unless you are an A&P or working close with one. Most of the cost/challenge would be associated with sheet metal cutting in a sensitive area.

I believe a manual set of brakes would have been welcomed in my mostly manual C. (it had a vaccuum powered step)

My primary use was and is descending from East Over the NYC class B.

5K + install... Only with both eyes closed while dreaming...(use caution with this method or a longbody will be in your future...)

As for slips, they are not reccomended for the long body crowd. Passengers aren't very comfortable with them.

Best regards,

-a-

[RJBrown]

I would only consider them in a turbo charged airplane or planes with a big block engine. Very nice addition to a K. Absolute necessity for a Rocket, a TLS or an Acclaim. Useful for an Ovation/Eagle/Missile.

I never saw the need for speed brakes on the J I owned after flying over 500 hours with them on a Rocket. Nice toy but not something I would pay extra for. A lot of my flying was between SLC and Denver. I often flew in mountainous areas. IMHO M20As through Js just don't need them.

The manual, vacuum and first generation electric have all been discontinued. The current electric version has a distinctly different shape than those that proceeded it.

Putting them on a E is just gilding the lilly. No real downside besides price/resell. If it is the plane you will keep forever and you want and can afford them go for it. On an E I would call them a fun toy. On a Rocket I would call them a necessary tool. Nothing wrong with an over improved airframe utill you try to sell it.

[Marauder]

I would only consider them in a turbo charged airplane or planes with a big block engine. Very nice addition to a K. Absolute necessity for a Rocket, a TLS or an Acclaim. Useful for an Ovation/Eagle/Missile.

I never saw the need for speed brakes on the J I owned after flying over 500 hours with them on a Rocket. Nice toy but not something I would pay extra for. A lot of my flying was between SLC and Denver. I often flew in mountainous areas. IMHO M20As through Js just don't need them.

The manual, vacuum and first generation electric have all been discontinued. The current electric version has a distinctly different shape than those that proceeded it.

Putting them on a E is just gilding the lilly. No real downside besides price/resell. If it is the plane you will keep forever and you want and can afford them go for it. On an E I would call them a fun toy. On a Rocket I would call them a necessary tool. Nothing wrong with an over improved airframe utill you try to sell it.

 

I looked into them years ago when I was going for an instrument rating in my Mooney and figured out that a 109 KIAS flap and 104 KIAS gear speeds could be tough to hit if I wasn't prepared for it. I managed without them, but at times it wasn't easy. Personally, I would love to be able to drop my gear at a higher speed and not need them.

[N201MKTurbo]

I've always found the forward slip pretty effective...

Especially with the speed brakes out...

[fantom]

Have electric speed brakes since new. Nice to have, but not an absolute necessity and they were much cheaper as original equipment. My 132 kt gear speed means I don't use them often.

I don't know about installing them in an older J, but they would come in handy sometimes. Even more so in K's and long bodies.

A lot less expensive than that third GPS

[FlyDave]

I would only consider them in a turbo charged airplane or planes with a big block engine. Very nice addition to a K. Absolute necessity for a Rocket, a TLS or an Acclaim. Useful for an Ovation/Eagle/Missile.

I never saw the need for speed brakes on the J I owned after flying over 500 hours with them on a Rocket. Nice toy but not something I would pay extra for. A lot of my flying was between SLC and Denver. I often flew in mountainous areas. IMHO M20As through Js just don't need them.

The manual, vacuum and first generation electric have all been discontinued. The current electric version has a distinctly different shape than those that proceeded it.

Putting them on a E is just gilding the lilly. No real downside besides price/resell. If it is the plane you will keep forever and you want and can afford them go for it. On an E I would call them a fun toy. On a Rocket I would call them a necessary tool. Nothing wrong with an over improved airframe utill you try to sell it.

 

I had them in my J in the LA basin and I only used them ~ 15% of the time - mostly because I was lazy about planning my descent. They are useful but I would not spend the money for them in a J or earlier airplane.

[SkyPilot]

I've always found the forward slip pretty effective...

I find my F model does not slip worth a darn. But then most of my flying time is on deHavilland Otters with the 1000 HP PZL piston engine. Those babies really slip nicely with the huge rudder. Perhaps I am desensitized?

[BigTex]

Doesn't slip like a Cub or Champ but my C does a pretty good job when needed.