Mooney Rocket purchase possibility

[benpilot]

 

Looking at Mooney Rocket and seller is willing to deal on it:

 

http://www.lasar.com/w/id/114/new-plane-details.asp

 

Does this look like a good plane to consider? Owner tells me the engine has been pickled and would be hard to do a test flight on it. More info:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mooney-Rocket-Nicest-Available-Price-SLASHED-Must-sell-now-/171186406827?forcerrptr=true&hash=item27db8145ab&item=171186406827&pt=Motors_Aircraft

 

Thoughts? 

[Danb]

Seems high. There are 3-4 Rockets on controller to compare to...good luck. Hopefully u will find a great bird that you can fly safe for yrs to come...

[benpilot]

 

Owner is willing to deal on price. Just wanted to see if the price was right would you consider it?

[tony]

Seems like you're taking all the risk, I'd price it according.  You can't fly it, you can't run the engine, will he at least let you remove a piston and look around with a scope?  Price it like you will need an overhaul.  If you don't, then you got a deal.  If you do,  then you're expecting it.

[benpilot]

 

Tony, yeah thats my biggest concern

Plus the plane is far away from me and I see tons of Mooney in California for sale that I can go fly and check out.

 

The owner would have to give me a screaming deal.

[Danb]

Agree with Tony if you can acquire the plane at such a discount and put in a reman. Then if priced this way you'd have the best of both worlds. Get a good prebuy inspection to see if anything else is of a concern ie. corrosion logs damage..May be able to steal it. B

[benpilot]

 

How much does a reman engine cost for a Rocket? Does Rocket Engineering even make these anymore? My biggest concern besides the pre buy and not being able to actually fly the bird is parts and support from Rocket Engineering. 

[TWinter]

This plane has been on EBay off and on for over a year. It has been priced all over the place. His starting bid now is 70K. That would be a steal in my opinion even with all the unknowns. I spoke with him a year ago when he had it priced well above 150K. He was screaming about debt back then, that he really needed to move it.

 

There were several other pics posted back then that were up close. It needed some TLC. Interior was pretty worn and there looked to be some minor paint issues. My concern (over and above the price) was there appeared to be some corrosion on the engine components and landing gear, maybe just surface corrosion, but still a concern. Good luck with the search and congrats on the PPL.  Just my .02.

[aviatoreb]

I think that plane was for sale when I was shopping for my rocket 3.5 years ago.

I too have seen him increase and decrease his eBay price all over the place for like a year. Strange to think if a plane won't go for 130 on eBay that maybe it will do better at 150.

The continental tsio520nb is the engine and it is used in several cessna twins - incl the c340 and c414. It is not cheap to oh - expect 40-50... Or more for factory or even more still for boutique. Though ask zephyr - they have a good reputation and I once read here that they quoted 35... I would love to hear what they quote you - given that rumor it would be the first place I would call.

Don't forget to budget the cost of hanging the engine which is not trivial.

Seriously though - careful getting a rocket straight after your ppl - it's a lot of airplane straight away.

[phecksel]

Rocket is my dream Mooney.

 

70k is a fantastic price.  150k on a plane you can't fly seems way out of line. 

 

I'm guessing there's more to this story than is being presented.

[phecksel]

Seriously though - careful getting a rocket straight after your ppl - it's a lot of airplane straight away.

Like handing the newly licensed teenager the keys ot the supercharged corvette

[benpilot]

Thanks guys,

This is great advice.

[aviatoreb]

Like handing the newly licensed teenager the keys ot the supercharged corvette

 

I have a local friend who has ~1100 hrs, incl several different kinds of Mooneys, and at least 400 in a twin comanche.  With that experience, he just purchased a king air - and he is still being very careful with the step up.  He has 20 hours in the make and model now (in like 2 weeks) and a mentor pilot for a few weeks and I do believe he will be taking on gradually more challenging missions.  I say the step from a C172 to a rocket is a bigger step.

 

Please be careful skynewbie.  I stepped into the rocket with 350 hours under my belt, incl 250 hrs as an instrument rated pilot, and I can tell you it was a bigger step from the diamond da40 than I had anticipated and that was a 150kts airplane.  Things just happen faster in the rocket.

 

That said, if you do buy this thing, your plan to transition carefully to the M20F in between is a good one.  Stick to it!  That is comparable to the DA40 as an inbetween step from the C172.  Get your instrument, and at least 200 hrs I would say.  I mean, blink in a C172 and your pitch is off and you are 50 feet below altitude and descending 200fpm and 5 degrees of course.  The same level of inattention to a much higher performance airplane like this and you are 1000ft of altitude and descending 1500fpm and 20deg off course.  It takes a while to get used to flying with a much finer touch and more constant attention while still staying sufficiently relaxed.

 

I just checked - wow that rocket is listed at 70k without reserve.  So maybe if you can have that airplane at 70k and there is not much else wrong with it, then it is worth a risk on the engine.

[David Mazer]

If your looking for a Rocket with no surprises, look at mine listed here on MooneySpace.  Mine has a lot more going for it.  Low time engine, better avionics, new paint and interior. If you want to talk, let me know.

 

Erik, where does it say there isn't a reserve?  I can't find that.  Of course, the engine overhaul is about $45,000 - $50,000 when all is said and done, if it is required.  That brings it to $120,000 if there really is no reserve but it seems an awfully low price.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/10618-fs-1986-252-m20k-rocket/

[Hondo]

Here are 17 Rockets  http://www.globalplanesearch.com/search?gpsq=mooney+Rocket

The first one is a 1985, hangared with Garmin 530W and 430W and 420 SMOH.

 

Ask the sellers and MSCs about Rocket part support.  I think there are 83 Rocket parts.

 

Insist on an inspection and ask for a test flight.

 

The market favors buyers. There is no need to rush.

[aviatoreb]

David were you the one w the 35k zephyr quote? Yes and 10-15k more in labor and parts to hang the engine?

Defn - if it were me I would prefer your turn key w low time and regularly operates/cared for engine and gorgeous paneled airplane.

I think eBay says reserve not met if there is a reserve - it could be no reserve. But then he could withdraw it from sale with 1 min to go by canceling all bids if not high enough.

[Dave Marten]

Skynewbie,

 

The Rocket is a LOT of airplane for a new pilot. I'd recommend against it for any newly minted pilot. Even an non-Rocket turbo (231/252) is nearly an equally large jump. You will not be able to really benefit from the capabilities. The rocket and all the turbo Mooneys are high/fast/IFR machines. When you're ready for one they are perhaps the best single engine cross country airplanes.

 

If the deal sounds too good to be true it IS! For ANY airplane you choose  ALWAYS go with a proven flier rather than one that has been sitting for a significant period. By the time you get the hangar queen flying again you'll have just as much (or more) money into it vs a turn key airplane. If the plane has not sold after such a long time on the market proceed with extreme caution (IE run in the other direction!).

 

If you want to see what a top notch Rocket SHOULD be Dave Mazer's is a fine example. A fully functional, flying rocket with a decent panel and mid-time engine is at least a $130K+ plane.

 

A solid 231 is around $100K. Good 252s start at in the 120's.

 

J's and K's are about equally priced. If you're looking for a turbo the best value is a modified 231 (intercooler, auto waste gate, GAMIs, speed brakes). they're baby 252s.

 

Just as a comparison: http://mooneyspace.com/topic/10596-for-sale-1980-m20k-231-n231rx/

 

Bottom line: don't buy junk when it comes to airplanes unless you really want to invest significant time, hassle and $ rebuilding it. Remember you're betting your (and your passengers') life on the quality and safety of that airplane.  

[Dave Marten]

Skynewbie,

 

Sorry one more thing - If you're in NorCal you need to get in touch with Don Kaye, Master CFI  donkaye@earthlink.net  In my opinion, Don is the BEST Mooney specific CFI...period. He is the guy in NorCal to work your Mooney transition. He's owned a Bravo for 20+ yrs so he knows turbos.

 

I don't mean to say the turbos are out of reach, skill wise, but like perhaps more than some other high performance singles you'll need some quality instruction in order to develop good habit patterns and stay ahead of the airplane.

 

Happy to take you flying in a 231 anytime. Zap me a PM. I'll throw you in the left seat and let you try it on for size.

 

Good luck!

[FlyDave]

Not even  a smudge on a new ticket and looking at a rocket.....priceless!!

[benpilot]

 

You guys rock, agree. I will get checked out in the Mooney M20F and build time than get my IFR ticket. Not rushing into a rocket or 231 yet. For me, being safe is the key.

I will also get in touch with Don Kaye for dual training if I decide to buy a Mooney.

 

@FlyDave- your humor is interesting. I know MANY new pilots who go out and buy fast planes after they get their PPL. One guy bought a Bonanza another a Saratoga. So it can be done safely with dual training. 

 

I am patient and not rushing anything just doing some research and making baby steps. Get my complex in a Mooney 20F and then IFR then commercial. Build time. Plus I need to save up a big chunk of cash anyhow to buy a plane. Financing rates are high and tough to get from a bank.

[Dave Marten]

Good plan.

 

Cut your teeth a bit on the M20F. Yes, with effective transition training you can step into a turbo pretty quickly. I know a couple turbo owners who are VFR only pilots. They love their airplanes and get excellent utility from them. An IFR ticket is not a pre-req for aircraft ownership, but if you're building time while you're saving for a plane then might as well work towards the instrument rating.

 

Also, I'm not a "one plane for life guy". Personally I consider a vintage Mooney the BEST first-airplane. If you find a decent vintage Mooney consider scooping that up. Less cash and still will offer very respectable cross country performance. You'll also learn the joys/pains of aircraft ownership. Then after you've had your fun with her say thanks and pass her off to the next pilot. Then when you'll find yourself considerably wiser when you buy your Rocket. 

[David Mazer]

David were you the one w the 35k zephyr quote? Yes and 10-15k more in labor and parts to hang the engine?

Defn - if it were me I would prefer your turn key w low time and regularly operates/cared for engine and gorgeous paneled airplane.

I think eBay says reserve not met if there is a reserve - it could be no reserve. But then he could withdraw it from sale with 1 min to go by canceling all bids if not high enough.

 

Yes.  About 35 for the rebuild and the bill was about 50 when all was said and done.  Of course, I went with premium upgrades at the time and also had the turbo rebuilt and the prop a few month later.  All in all, it was an expensive year but the engine should be good for some time to come.

[Marauder]

This plane has had recent damage. Check out the details here:

http://www.aviationdb.com/Aviation/AircraftQuery.shtm

Is this being disclosed by the owner?

[benpilot]

 

Thanks Marauder! You guys are great. One of these days if you visit KPAO, let me take you for lunch and we can go punch holes in the sky.

I will rent for a while get experience and buy a house first then use some equity to buy the bird once I've some time and IR ratings.

[Bob]

Looks like the seller cancelled bids and ended auction.