Shadrach

Well, in terms of... Oh wait, never mind - I own a "pre-J" model...I'm standing down. Sorry, I'm sure a J owner will be along soon to help. You probably should have posted this in the Modern Mooney section.

60-65kts?

I've often wondered if they're worth the trouble... My Dad is 5'5" formerly 5'6" and has over 2000hrs in Mooneys. He's never mentioned a problem with the stock arrangement...and he's not proportioned like a super model either. His actual inseam is probably around 28"ish... He flys with the seat full forward or 1 notch back...that may change if he "fills out" a bit more...

I feel that retracting flaps in the air is a band-aid for less than optimum technique...if they've been deployed, chances are they'll stay there until I'm on the ground. YMMV... I hold the nose off for 2 reasons: 1) Doing so ensures that I have employed good technique, measuring every landing on more than just the gentleness of the touchdown breeds discipline. 2) The resulting combination of induced drag (the tail is flying at near critical AOA) and parasitic drag from the angle of the cowl, wings and flaps to the relative wind slows the plane quickly with little to no need for braking under normal conditions... For short fields the flaps are up immediately after touchdown and there is no energy left to hold the nose off. When I do a short field, the wing is unloaded in the descent to the TDZ, there is no round out - all flying energy is dissipated in the flare...the yoke is full aft at touchdown, ground effect helps cushion the landing, but the plane makes "positive contact" as they say in the Navy.

Job - AOA is on my wish list. I really enjoy doing short field (for me thats <=1800ft) work in my F and would like the additional SA. Still researching the pros and cons of the LRI vs. true AOA indicator... http://www.liftreserve.com/

Thanks Jet, I appreciate the endorsement of my technique... Especially given that my log book probably looks like a pamphlet next to yours. Also... I know the difference between a yolk and a yoke, but it seems sometimes my fingers don't... This lack of editing is for the birds. Is everyone unable to edit posts? Not tryig to hijack...

BD, I've never flown a plane that would really throw you forward in your seat under braking. Wheels typically lock up because of speed and or gusts that lighten the weight on them. Hot pavement can also be a factor. Your brakes may require service. Try a 40 mph no flap taxi test and see how it stops. GA aircraft brakes are not manufactured by the AC manufacturer and do not have much of a selection in pad material. My plane shares brake liner p/n with some C210s and Beech Debonairs... Both of which are heavier machines... The actuating system is "Mooney specific" but delivering fluid to the calipers has never been an issue. I have had my plane comfrotably in and out of several >2000ft strips. I'd be concerned if I was "sailing by" some turnoffs because of a lack of brake effectiveness.

argh...wait = weight...

As others have said it seems you're just a bit too fast. If you fly final at 1.2 x Vso for th plane's approximate weight I think your problem will go away. I raise flaps as soon as the nose wheel is down. However, typically when my nose wheel is down, I connot pick it up with elevator. Find a long runway and practice full stall, mains first, landings... It will make you more comfortable and proficient. When I first started flying Mooneys, I was showing an instructor my technique for "greasing them on" after a FR. In my mind everything was going great as we gently kissed the pavement until he pulled the yolk back on roll out... I realized that I was flying the wheels on and not really landing the airplane. It felt smooth, but was poor technique. Full stall landings (mains first) can be equally smooth but require precise speed control. Summer thermals coming off a hot runway do not make life easier... When a medium bodied mooney is properly landed on the mains, the nose can be held off for an additional 3 to 5 seconds or about 250 to 500ft depending on weight and CG... Here is the formula for calculating stall speed by weight... I listed MGW and 2100lbs for comparison. 2100lbs is light but entirely common weight for me in my M20F when solo... Vso @MGW 2740lbs = 54 knots = 62mph. 1.2 x 54KIAS=65KTAS = 75mph 1.3 x 54KIAS=70KTAS = 81mph 2100lbs = 2100/2740 = 0.766 Square root of 0.766 = 0.875 0.875 x 54KTAS= 47.25KTAS = 54mph 1.2 x 47.25 KTAS = 56.7KTAS = 65mph 1.3 x 47KTAS = 61.1KTAS = 70mph If 1.2 x Vso feels uncomfortable, start at 1.3 and try working your way down to 1.2...you'll find what you like. 1.1 is shortfield technique, it's more advanced in terms of proficiency and feels mushy relative to what we're used to...

Jet, Clearly you were on an IFR flight plan...If ATC knew that it was a Barron, then I assume they were talking to him as well. Sounds like this was a "deal" for the controller, or damn close to it....

I'm not sure how being IFR would have changed the OP's situation... I have done many >400nm trips VFR with advisories... I think it's a great combination of route/nav freedom and traffic/airspace assistance...

I hope this thread dies with each and every "straw-man" that it has birthed... No one here knows the circumstances of the stuck mike and I do not think the his radio displays a little "T" like my KX165s do when I'm transmitting. No one here has suggested that it is permissible to walk around the work place “saying this sort of thing whenever and to whomever you want, at any time”... No one here can speak for the FO, if he was truly offended by the comments, don't you think he'd be displaying at least as much "outrage" as the "offended" folks on this board??? SWA has the "right" to start whatever process is outlined in the union member's CBA to deal with these circumstances. I am sure there are metrics that need to be met to justify termination...either he did not meet them, or they felt that a suspension was adequate under the circumstances...

I'm flying out to Denver next week. Won't have time to to attend the MAPA course but will have an afternoon/evening one day to take my brother up for a scenic tour of some sort. I lived on the Front Range for 14 years but never as a pilot, so I'd welcome suggested itineraries to take my bro' up for a nice scenic cruise for a late afternoon/evening, someplace with a restaurant would be great. Will be flying out of Centennial, KAPA. Thanks! Jeff

president = precedent...I'm going to eventually get through one post sans typo...

I guess there are some that do want legislate morality...On what grounds would he be fired? Did he do anything illegal? How would the company go about circumventing it's contract. What is the benefit? N4352H-The stuck mike is a completely separate issue from the tirade. It would set a really interesting precedent... Convicting a pilot for a mechanical issue... Have you thought this through? I hope that your equipment is maintained to a higher standard then SWA's... I'd bet that in the absence of the tirade, you'd probably not even be mentioning it. I cannot believe that on a board full of pilots that fly XC aircraft...we've the "he should have been busy flying the plane" comments... Really? You'd be a great asset to an organization like USA Today... What were you "busy" doing in cruise during during the 1st hour of the last 3 or 4hr XC trip you made? I'm typically shuffling through 60GB of nothing to listen to... The reality is that this guy is likely good at his job, and the company has invested tangible resources in him in terms of his type rating and recurring training...and offensive conversations that were intended to be private are not grounds for dismissal... Scorn? Well sure, Knock yourself out. Since he is so "unteachable" as many have said and will likely never evolve into anything better (such a cynical and typically false POV), what do the "deciders" think is an acceptable place for him in society? Bus driver, trash man? Perhaps he should just be euthanized? I'd bet a large sum that 90% of the folks on this board that have at some point in their lives said something ignorant and offensive. Not having the benefit of a skeleton key for everyone's closets; I suppose we'll just have to settle for the self righteous outrage. Get over it, seriously. Tirade indeed...

Nice 2 things followed by a 1) and a 3) in my last post...this lack of editing will hopefully make me a better proofreader. 1) Why is it that you believe that you must necessarily see a drop in MP for there to be intake turbulence. Any movement of the butterfly should affect airflow, if not MP. 2) I have an older JPI and do not have the proper port to retrieve data. I've therefore never downloaded and graphed the data. However, I can tell you that peak is in a pretty precise place WRT the red knob. I have experimented at alt and found that if I carefully lean for peak egt (which varies cycle to cycle about 3º), any movement of the knob will cause the temp to fall off one side or the other... If the knob was a clock hand, finding true peak would be an exorcise in slowly fine tuning between the 11 and 1 o'clock positions overshooting a few times and backing up until you get the absolute max number... In my early days flying LOP I was usually flying leaner than necessary because I would enrichen too quickly after the pull - going rich again before seeing peak...this would give me a "false peak" and I would set accordingly. The speed sucked; so I experimented further, eventually learning the error of my ways.

Skybrd, All things, be equal, I believe that a hot engine is easier to turn over than a cold one... My skytech obviously feels the same way as it sometime struggles a bit then the engine is cold...coefficient of expansion notwithstanding... The same is true for my lawnmower, my motorcycle and every other engine I own...

You cannot legislate morality, nor do I want anyone deciding what I or anyone else can and cannot say in private whether that's at work home or anywhere else... cockpit voice recorders have nothing to do with privacy, they are not in the public domain and one can reasonably expect that another human being will only hear the content of what's spoken in the cockpit only under extreme conditions... While I find this guys comments obnoxious and unprofessional, I fail to see who he was verbally abusing. I am far more frightened of idea of speech police than this twit. This guy is a pig and on top of it he was having a "bad month"...yet what he said was far tamer than lyrics in much of what is played on the radio today (there's no accounting for taste)...Time to move on, life is full of jerks..are we so sensitive that we call for the termination of a perfectly competent pilot because of a "should have been" private conversation offends us?

OK, so a cracked oil cooler and yet no signs of external leakage???

Becca, There was no intent...This was like 2 guys having a private conversation in an empty confrence room and not knowing that speaker phone was dialed into a conference call with 200 people on it. It was not intentional, it was not descriminatory and it was not illegal. It was unprofessional and offensive, but if all airline personel were "canned" for that there be a lot less FAs around as well...

Parker, Many states are "at will"...but a CBA trancends that with regards to termination. The termination guidelines are definitly codified, and as mentioned before, relate to safety or performance... As far as the FCC violations mentioned...Without intent, it really has no teeth.

This is what I'm saying... If the governor was a factor, I think it would be revealing itself in a number of other ways as well... Something is either out of tolerence somewher - or - something is impeding flow to the pressure sending unit. Whatever it is, it seems it is happening as the vernatherm starts to open...

Skybyrd, In my previous post I mentioned the heated fuel left in the injector lines "expanding" partially "vaporizing" and "puking" through the injector into the intake manifold... That is the fuel that is first fired by the engine... The rest comes on board as you feed the mixture in after the first few coughs and sputters... what do you mean by "increased friction of a hot engine"? What are you basing that on?

Jet, I was just relaying my experience and understanding, not critiquing your technique... I was questioning the need for boost because in my application, the mechanical pump provides adequate pressure even at cranking speed to offer all of the flow my engine needs to start... I can appreciate that your experience is different... -R

"There's really no extra work, just pull the throttle until the MP needle moves [can be a long pull at 10,000 msl]" Hank, 2 things: 1) If what you say is the case and you can move the throttle a bit without a change in MP, then why pull until MP drops. Just moving the butterfly should create turblence. 3) If your engine stumbles at peak, then I'd look into moving the probe, because it seems one of the other cylinders is running leaner than your reference cylinder...