Shadrach

Quote: scottfromiowa What is your fuel flow at this setting Ross?

If you were ranging from 135 to 144 on the GPS, then winds were not calm, or you were riding down and climbing up thermals... GS range at verying headings and altitudes is not much of a data point... Also, if you were pulling 24" at 2500ft and 24" at 5000ft then I imagine you were flying part throttle? If those are in fact your real world numbers then I know of a stock F that would walk away from your plane. No big difference in terms of block times, but it indicates something might be amiss with your E...

WRT Short and low hops: The DC/Balt Metro gives the Mooney more than a speed and navigation advantage. Traffic can slow you average speed in a car to 30MPH or less, and it's a crap shoot as to when and where it will be the worst some times. Faced with a 150ml RT that could take anywhere from 2:20min to 5:30 mins in a car, I'll take low, fast and direct for 15 to 20mins in the Mooney everytime...

The last 4-way test we did that was close to what your asking was at 7K and completed in the late fall a few years back. IIRC at WOT RAO 2500rpm and 100ROP the calculation was a hair over 154kts. I should probably see how it runs with the recently installed engine.

Scott, I do a lot of low alt (2000-3000msl) quick hops to Grandma's house in W. Maryland; for those trips I'm 30- 60LOP depending on DA. I figure on ~150kts, but that's WOTLOPRAO making ~78% or better depending on DA. I'm usually alone (600-700 under gross). I am always 2500ish RPM when level at any alt. I flight plan for 150kts during normal cruise (6500 to 9500msl is typical) as well. At cruise altitudes, I run anywhere from 15LOP to Peak depending on CHTs. Above 11K, I'm almost always 100ROP. In a 4 way GPS run (3 mins at each heading) our calulations showed 145kts at a DA of nearly 16K (500 under gross). Certainly potential for error, but I doubt it to be more than 5kts. In the mid-atlantic during winter, we have cold (18-30df) high pressure days and can see DAs that are more than 1000ft below SL. I can pull 28 inches at 2500 RPM down low with the ram air open. I've made quite a few trips to Grandmas with indicated airspeed in the bottom of the yellow arc (155kts). The truth is that people fly their planes differently, manage powe differently in addition to the ship to ship differences in rigging, build precision and MX. Our numbers are all over the place because of it. My very stock F model seemed to be nearly identicle in performance to my hangar neighbor's Comanche 250...even side by side in flight heading to fly-ins. It turns out he pulls back to 25"X2500 at TPA on climbout because he was taught that back in 1978. I, on the other hand only really manage temps, I have a target set of temperatures and take all the power that I can within the personal limits I've set for the engine.

JP, I've met Neil a time or 2 but it was years ago. I would not even try to run with an S35 or better unless I was in an Ovation; then I'd be happy to fly circles around it on 20 less HP. I actually have some A36 (285hp) time and would call it an honest 165kt bird. I think the V-tails are visually stunning from every angle and truly admire the design. However, I've noticed that when Bo owners and admirers talk about "The Bonanza", they tend to neglect the fact that there've been nearly 30 different models to carry the name, with power plants ranging from 185hp to 300hp and real world cruise speeds from ~140kts to >200kts...They just take the sum of all of the best qualities of each into this mythical beast that needs no nomenclature and is simply "The Bonanza"... For some reason, they don't give Mooneys the same consideration, as no matter what year and model is being discussed they can only visualize the interiors of a A, B or C models and the the FF payload of a FIKI Acclaim with extended range tanks...

Quote: fantom I know it's been pointed out before, but real men don't need to pull their Johnsons

Quote: Lood I had the opposite happen to me. We were on our way to a fly in in Namibia when we took off after clearing customs in Upington. I was at MAUW in my F and the temps were around 90 deg F. So I kind of plodded along, climbing to FL085 when a 300hp F33 came zooming past, soon to disappear. When we landed at our destination, the Bonnie pilot couldn't help but remark to me "I thought Mooney's were fast?" I just nodded and confirmed that they are very fast indeed. Then I suggested that on the return flight, he should take off around the same time as the Ovation, that also attended, just to kind of get closer to an apples with apples comparison. Unfortunately, he wasn't really sure what an Ovation was, so I just left it at that. Poor guy...

Quote: jetdriven We were given a delay vector then a 360 to avoid overtaking a Challenger jet into Erie the other day.

Quote: AustinPynes I actually heard from the Prepurchase mechanic he thought it was plenty loud....even though insulation and seals were replaced.

On the aviating dot com website about a week later, I related this story and three other Johnson bar drivers admitted to "never having had this happen to them - and it never will again.." ....One point for the electric gear systems.

Quote: fantom Sorta like getting out to crank start you car

Quote: edgargravel No wrath. Just sadness. Some know. Some don't.......... BTW: Good luck with sorting this out (no kidding this time..)

The 40:1 gears are a good idea. I have seen M20s with a doubler installed on the belly cross member were the motor is mounted. I'm not saying that it's a 20:1 thing, there are other factors that could stress the system, but slower equals less stress which is almost always preferable.

Quote: AustinPynes Sellers Bose, not mine.

I'm with you J...made the hair on my neck stand up the first time I saw the video, but that's probably because it's so close in appearance to what I'm flying. I'm sure a lot of the crushing is due to snow pack, but snow pack did not deform the motor-mount, separate the wings and distort the spar... Poor guy went in hard and fast. I'm hope it was instant. He was 10s of miles off course, descended into inadvertent IMC which contained icing conditions as well...in a mountainous region - the outcome was almost assured. Nonetheless sad and as you said, eerie...but kind of cool...which is an odd juxtaposition to the melancholy it inspires.

Austin, I just looked through your gallery; that's a nice looking F model you've purchased! The seat upholstery looks well executed. I'd advise you not to store those Bose X's with the earcups touching. When they sit like that for a period of time, they stick together...pulling them apart will leave small fissures in the rubber. I would store them in a bag, or clamp them over the seat in a pinch. Bose earseals are $30 a shot which is nothing relatively speaking. Once they start to go, they go quickly. They will leave black rubber bits in your ears and hair if you continue to use them (especially if you're on a date) once they've started to deteriorate.

Quote: n74795 Is my egt wrong , I peak out at 1400 to 1425 , and run 50 degrees rich of peak , 1200 seems awful low , to be any thing but full rich... I know the engine runs well and compressions are all 76 or better ,

Maybe...You'd need to rip the wings off first.

It's temp and DA dependent... The Bendix RSA fuel servo will adjust flow based on mass airflow through the impact tubes in the intake. At SL on a standard day a Lycoming IO360 should be flowing at ~19GPH

Quote: KSMooniac Ah, ok. Always learn something new around here. My point was that it was pretty clear to me that I was on the rich side of peak.

Quote: Hank I thought it had to do with control surface flutter, and was address sometime in the late 60's. Doesn't matter to me--my 1970 model has yellow from 175-200 mph, and since it's a C, I'm never there except in a descent and then barely. 165-170 MPH is typical, unless I've been given a chop-and-drop approach.

A friend (non-pilot, but enthusiastic) of mine recently did some hiking on Hood and was debating a visit to the site of this 36 year old crash site (there are apparently two M20s that found a final resting place on Mt. Hood). He ultimately chose a different destination, but the idea was inspired by a thread found on a Portland area hiker message board. The music (Guided by Voices' Awfull bliss) in the video is fitting. The footage is especially poignant for me as the paint scheme of this poor C model is almost identical to my F. N9746M - The non-instrument rated 227hr pilot was 32 yrs old on that 1st day of Dec 1975, the same age that I was when I became a partner in my F model back in '06. Don't know if anyone will find this interesting, but thought I'd share... resolution is lacking but good enough. Video linky High res pics found at the links below... http://www.portlandhikers.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6262 http://www.portlandhikers.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5677&hilit=plane+crash

Quote: 201er I couldn't have been LOP. When pulling back on mixture EGTs were going up. It was taking a lot of leaning cause I was up to 7 or 8 thousand feet by that point in a 15+ minute climb. I didn't think the oil temp could get so high when the EGT/CHTs were at or below typical climb temps. Is it a good guess that the reason for this was because the high climb angle was providing inadequate cooling to the oil cooling system which over time in the climb became too hot and exceeded oil temp red line? What is oil temp red line anyway? What happens beyond that point? What is the max temperature related to?

If I stay full rich, my EGTs will typically drop below 1200 climbing through ~3K depending on conditions.. in the winter, it's probably closer to ~5K. 1) My guess (as others have said) is that you got too slow. Think about the cowl openings, their angle to the relative airflow in a steep climb and how that might affect the flow into the cowl, then think about your oil cooler and it's postion to the relative airlow through the cowl. In a steep climb, the cowl intakes are scooping air out of the relative flow (in addition to propwash), in cruise they are more or less in line with the relative airflow. 2) If I were a betting man I'd bet it more likely that this is not the first time it has happened in your bird or any other multi owner 20yr old Mooney. If I were concerned about anything, it would be the flap attach points on the back of the spar. 3) Muchado about nothing from what you're describing...