M016576

In my Missile STC paperwork, a few landing gear components are swapped out with parts from newer J/K model aircraft in order to get the 3200lb max gross weight for the missile. I think you could probably find those components on the used market for under $500 in total. I posted those pages a while back in another thread regarding this exact same idea. I really don’t think it would be difficult to up the Max Gross on the J... you just need a DER to commit to the test program/profiles.

Same with me

Great question, and I was wondering the same thing... Has anyone else thought about this? The tank on each wing in a E/F/J/K holds ~32 gallons usable... so you’re telling me that if I have 35% fuel remaining in that wing tank, I might lose my engine if I bank up a little? Would the ferry pilot have regained his engine if he’d just switched tanks when the engine started to stumble? (My guess is yes). Man... having to ditch an aircraft for fuel starvation when you’ve got 20+ gallons on board, in an airplane with 64 gallon tanks; just seems all wrong.

Yeah- that’s moderate (for sure) bordering on severe from the looks of the pictures, if that did indeed occur in minutes. Of course, that’s stated without any context to the flight other than your description. when the TKS system on my missile is primed and operating, it doesn’t collect ice horns like that on the panels... but I do get ice on the light fence and tip (same as you). I don’t think I’ve ever seen ice horns like that though, outside of nasa pictures.. and that’s after 8 years of winter operations in the pacific north west (Oregon)... with some pretty “reliable?” Icing patterns. Where did you say that occurred? Near the Great Lakes? pretty formations- but that’s something I’d prefer not to see on my wing ever- regardless of TKS, boots, heating plates, or even afterburners.... ok, I’d be ok with it if I had afterburners... but not that other stuff!

More likely is that a 0 was inadvertently added.... 30F is below freezing already... most of my training that I can recall states that icing is a possible danger between 3C to -20C, with 3C to -5C being the highest risk of stuff like SLD. Total “word of mouth” and speculation... but if it was a typo, I find the “extra 0” to be a more likely error.

Landings per hour is a fun metric... but I think, for utilities sake, I like the more simple “landings = takeoffs” measure of a pilot’s experience.

That sounds like some *expensive* koolaid!

Hah! Suckers! See, if they built a generator without computer controlled ignition... like our aircraft engines... then they wouldn’t have to worry about silly firmware updates and complaints!

Is that a question...or is that a statement?

King KT-74’s can be had for ~1600 if you look... maybe that’s the thought? edit: nevermind- that’s about what a gdl82 costs as well.

That goes for any plane... unlike real estate, you probably *don’t* want to invest in the cheapest plane (house) on the block (in type/model/series)!

Depends on density altitude... but 24-26 with my io-550A (300hp)assuming sea level ~standard day.

Apparently hours alone don’t make the pilot. We’re all only as good as our next flight/landing....

Yes... this. a TKS system on either a bravo or ovation alone, even without a nice panel or low time engine, almost always puts the plane at/around 200K these days. Not saying it’s impossible to find one for 150... just that that price is pretty far below market value right now.

My Daughter was there with me- hence the sparkly sandals! :p

I’ve heard about it. I’ve read about those unfortunate enough to have suffered such an incident... and I’ve often wondered to myself... what would I do if the worst happened to...my flap indicator. yes... as my son was climbing up onto the wing he slipped and scraped the trailing edge of the flap, and it moved down a little then sprang right back up into place. As he did, I head a “POP” sound from the panel. I got out of the plane and my son was fine... and thankfully, so was the flap (not even a Knick on it). I got back into the cockpit and noticed that the flap indicator post was gone. Crap. so, anyone that’s heard of this happenijg before knows that the flap and trim indicators are actually about 5 foot long stainless steel push wires that connect all the way down to the flap and trim motors. That’s not a typo- the flap one is about 5 feet long. From the indicator window in the panel, these wires run through their conduits, which go through the floorboards, and between the floorboards and the belly panels to their respective motors, where they have a small adjustment set screw and are bolted directly to the motor arm. So you really are getting a physical indication of where that flap or trim motor is set! Unless... of course... the indicator rod has broken off in the window. the piece you see in the window is an acrylic rod that’s tapered and painted at the top, and held to the push wire by some shrink tubing. Here’s how I fixed mine... step one: run the trim all the way down so you don’t break off that indicator too while you’re doing the work. step two: unscrew the four screws holding the window and indicator into the console. step three, remove the clear window. Be careful not to snap off the trim indicator. Step four: locate the flap indicator push wires behind the console through the opening. You’ll have to make sure the flaps are all the way up- or you won’t be able to feel the wire behind the console. my wire bent about 45 degrees when my son pushed the flap down and it sprung back into position- so I had to bend it back to upright. There is no way to remove the console without drilling out a bunch of rivets or cutting the console open on the passenger side. I was able to manipulate the wire with my fingers through the flap indicator opening, but it took time- as I was working “blind.” You’ll need a small mirror to look at the piece through the opening... I purchase some 1/8” acrylic rod from Amazon for about $10 and measured it out against the trim indicator rod. Then sanded the tip down and covered it with a small piece of black shrink wrap. I epoxied that to the flap wire and left it to cure over night. The next day, I put it all back together. Good as new. Total time was about 1.5 hours... much of that was spent trying to figure out how to bend the wire back into shape and reach it. good as new!

I have had multiple interactions in person and over email with Dana and Chief over the course of the 8 or so years I lived near Grants Pass. I found him, Terry, Noreen and Chief in general to be a stand up shop with top notch work at a highly competitive price. Their installs of my PFD, GPS and Engine monitor were all completed on time and under my allotted budget- and still are running strong and without issue (the PFD and engine monitor were installed in 2014). I couldn’t disagree more with Bob’s sentiment- I’m sure it’s just some sort of misunderstanding.

She’s a thing of beauty- Congrats!

But it’s not just paperwork- it’s also a swap out of some landing gear components for the newer parts... I’m assuming those parts are stronger to avoid a gear collapse.

Hah! All “upgrades” are in the eye of the beholder, right? I will say this- while 3200lbs is probably not a good idea in a M20J... 2900lbs flys in all later model M20J’s right now. So why not extend that weight increase to earlier M20E/F/J/K’s through a strengthening of the landing gear? Have those late model J’s and K’s been falling out of the sky? Are they blatant safety risks? Of course not. So why not strengthen their landing gear and give them the extra 160lbs or useful load? *the other J/K’s are already flying with this max gross, and have been for ~35 years with no additional increased engine horsepower* Edit: I’m an “old” fighter pilot... so I’ll through a quote out there... “The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it.” (Richthofen)

The parts list and description is in the STC packet I’ve got for my plane. I think I may actually have posted it here at one point... but I can’t remember... I’m away from my logs for the month, or I’d go back and look at the specific parts... but if I remember correctly- the list was only about 6-9 parts, all from newer Mooney’s, and all involving landing gear components.

My reason for saying 2-3K is the small list of parts required to go from 2740 to 3200 on the Missile STC, plus the cost to do the required test flights, run the paperwork/certification etc on a previously certificated airframe. My guess is that they are *not* planning on an extensive retrofit... and most likely have assessed that they can/have/will be able to leverage the existing test data from the previous J/K GW increase, and/or Rocket/Missile test data. So the small number of parts (say $500 worth), plus the paperwork ($1500-$2500 amortized for data/effort)... could be a cheap, fast way to generate cash flow quickly, before moving on to more cash intensive endevours.

Just as one in a C150 gets into trouble at a higher DA with terrain? I agree that my previous J didn’t like 100 degree plus days. My Missile doesn’t either. But I certainly would have liked an extra 150lbs in the winter at 40 degrees F, and at lower altitudes! my point is this- allow the pilot to make the decision, while showing the envelope...Otherwise, why not just limit all max useful in any mooney to.. say.. 500lbs... that way the pilot will always have excess power for hot, high DA days.

Yes. I have a Missile. It’s a J that’s been modified and a STC that takes the max gross up to 3200lbs. They accomplished this by replacing some of the landing gear components with later model J/K or M/S landing gear components. I’m assuming for additional strength. The list of components is pretty short- I cant imagine they’d be too expensive to buy or install.

If the “new, new.... ok, really this time... new” mooney is able to offer a gross weight increase of 100-150lbs STC for E/F/J/K models that is reasonably priced (2-3K?), I think they will probably sell around 1000 of the kits. not sure what they’d have to spend to get there, though, or if it’s even possible. I kind of hope that’s what they are talking about when they say “gross weight increase”... although an increase for the long bodies would be great for future sales, too