ilovecornfields

I was once vectored into another airplane less than a mile away. I went the opposite direction and said “If I had turned to that heading i would have hit the traffic.” There was no exchange of numbers. Stuff happens. Controllers are human, too. As far as I know, as long as you didn’t intentionally violate the regs, no accident occurred, it’s not a presidential TFR and you haven’t used the immunity recently a NASA report is your “get out of jail free card.” Although I think my wife is onto me because she’s started asking “Why are you getting another letter from NASA?”

I second the carrier. And a towel to cover it. And an assistant. And snacks. And an extra $20 bill to give to the FBO when your new puppy pees all over the carpet.

There’s a surgical procedure we sometimes perform in the ED called a “resuscitative thoracotomy.” (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resuscitative_thoracotomy - warning - pictures are very graphic). It’s not the most technically challenging procedure to perform but it is quite invasive and for this reason providers are often reluctant to do it until it’s too late (survival rates around 1% are quoted). I’m not saying I do this procedure often , but the times I’ve done it I had to prepare myself and everyone in the room that this might happen, otherwise it would have been a total disaster. I kind of see the go around this way. If you’re going to do it, you need to be prepared to do it early and the it’s not very challenging to do. If you wait too long to realize you’re in trouble then your chance of survival drops precipitously. I was taught that every landing ends in a go around unless you find yourself in conditions to make a safe landing. I think having this mindset helps. I’ve probably done more go-around than others here but I’ve also never bent any metal in over 30 years of flying.

Controllers don’t want to report you either because the tapes get reviewed for a certain amount of time (I forgot how long) before and after the incident. If the controller did anything wrong, even if completely unrelated to the incident, they can get “remediated” on this. I recently heard the local controller bend over backwards not to bust a pilot for crossing the hold short line. He gave him a takeoff clearance after he saw him taxi onto the runway. The pilot started talking about how he crossed the line and the controller just repeated “YOU ARE CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF” in a way that clearly communicated “just shut up and takeoff before you make this worse.” I’m actually surprised they don’t have video cameras all over the airport synced to the ATC tapes.

I agree. How about I concede it’s a liberal conspiracy to take over the world and then we can talk about something else. Anyone watch the Oscars?

Please, tell me how you arrived at your conclusion that this is more harmful than helpful. The only “harm” I have seen from this change is the elevated blood pressure amidst a flurry of hyperbolic statements about how the end of the world is coming because of the change in wording from “student” to “learner.” Did you walk over to the education department and ask them about this? Did you read the article I linked? Did you spend ANY time actually trying to understand why people are using the term “learner” instead of student? Or did you just decide you already knew the answer and couldn’t be bothered to actually look things up and maybe learn something new. Sounds like you’re not behaving like a learner… I agree with you that there is a problem here, but the problem I’m seeing isn’t changing the word “student” to “learner” - it’s this virus that seems to have infected everyone and makes them completely incapable of evaluating information for themselves, educating themselves on a subject and then forming an informed opinion (which, ironically, is what a learner would do). Instead, people just look for inflammatory things, start going off half-cocked on social media about how it’s proof of “them” attacking “us” and how the world is changing for the worse and if we don’t “fight back” our way of life will be irreparably doomed.

Uh oh! Now the FAA is forcing business schools to do it as well! I never knew they were so powerful. What’s next, colleges and universities? https://www.aacsb.edu/insights/articles/2020/07/developing-learners-vs-teaching-students Is this really the hill you want to die on? I know people who aren’t in academia see this as proof that the sky is falling, the liberals are taking over and we will never be able to recover from this and Make Aviation Great Again but that’s simply not the case. I’m baffled that people who should really know better choose to get so upset over something that they don’t even understand instead of just spending a few minutes looking into why the change was actually made and trying to learn something from it (or should I say “student something from it”). If you go around looking for ways that the world is out to get you then you’ll find them - regardless of whether or not they actually exist. But I guess some people live like Joseph Heller’s fictional character and are convinced that “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t after you.” If that’s how you feel then the wild must be a very uncomfortable and scary place.

I think your anxiety is very understandable and it may or may not be a symptom of other issues. Questions to ask yourself (not to answer here) could include whether other activities make you anxious and maybe what other things you have going on in your life? Anxiety isn’t always pathological - it can stop us from doing dumb things. Some people are more anxious than others and some even meet criteria for generalized anxiety disorder. Unfortunately, the FAA’s approach to mental health is more punitive than preventative so many pilots who should talk to someone before little problems turn into big ones probably don’t. One of the issues people in my profession tend to have is that we are more anxious than others because we’ve seen how basically anything fun can turn catastrophic. If you name something fun, I’ll tell you how I saw someone horribly injured or dead from trying that. Someone trying to reassure me that “X is really safe, you shouldn’t feel anxious about it” gets counteracted by time time (or times) I’ve seen someone horribly injured doing that activity.That doesn’t mean I stay home and never do anything fun, but I do have a different risk tolerance than some and tend to be very deliberate about the risks I’m willing to take. If you have someone to talk to, it would be good to share your thoughts. Bonus points if they’re a mental health professional and can talk off the record. I’m pretty lucky in this regard because I married a psychiatrist so we get to “process my big feelings” whenever we want. Sometimes even when I don’t want. Best wishes for the next step in your journey.

Bullhead City, AZ in July had the same effect for our family.

You said this much better than I could have. Everyone is primed right now to immediately jump on any trivial thing as a sign that “they” are trying to ruin the world for “us” and if “we” don’t act right now we’ll lose. At least that’s what one of the letters said that I recently received from a large national political organization. I guess there are advantages to being on the mailing lists for both major parties. I don’t understand politics very well so I have no idea how this makes our country better but apparently it does somehow. And if I just send them a small donation I can “be part of the solution.” I consider myself pretty lucky that I work closely with a diverse group of people whose political orientations are quite different from mine and we know and respect each other well enough to have civil thoughtful conversations. Most of the time. Seems this is much more challenging to accomplish on the interwebs.

I use my checklists. It helps if you touch the item you’re referencing in the checklist.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all. If you repeat something that clearly isn’t true enough times people will believe it. If I was able to change education I would focus more on teaching people how to think. If you’ve never read “Thinking, fast and slow” I would highly recommend it.

As a Middle Aged White Man I completely agree, but I’m not sure calling students “learners” is really the problem. The world is a different place now. Remember when “research” involved going to a library and reading primary sources instead of looking at Instagram memes while expelling solid waste from your GI tract? Of all the changes the FAA has made which could be viewed as being for political correctness (like changing the AIM and NOTAM) this “learner” thing just doesn’t make it to the top of my list. It’s the term everyone is education is either using or will be using. To me, this seems like an example of displacement where people are upset at the world around them but since they can’t really change that they pick something else to displace their anxiety. https://www.simplypsychology.org/defense-mechanisms.html Commercial pilot only, not a psychiatrist…

I had a very similar experience when I tried to help my son with his math homework recently and he asked me to stop because I was “doing it all wrong.” Now I’m certainly less mathematically gifted than some, but I did do my share of multivariable calculus, linear algebra and differential equations in college so I foolishly thought I was qualified to help out with middle school math. I guess I was wrong. His teacher tried educating me about “common core” and I ended up just giving up and hiring a tutor. I used my free time not helping him with his homework to build him a Minecraft server so it’s win-win. @donkaye, I get why you’re upset, but the fact is the world changes and you getting all worked up about the little stuff doesn’t get you far and probably isn’t good for your health, either. Despite our occasional disagreements (I’m still climbing out at Vy no matter what you say) I respect you as a person and the vast amount of wisdom you’ve shared with me and everyone else here. I don’t always like the way the world changes either but I have to pick my battles and, for me, this is pretty far down on the list. I was actually just thinking about you today as I filled up in Los Banos. Gustine was a few cents cheaper but the runway is shorter and it didn’t seem worth it to me to save a few dollars. I appreciated having flown there with you at night though and knowing I could have made it in there if I had to. You’re a good teacher. Your students are lucky to have you, regardless of what you call them.

Mine seem to refer to themselves as “victims” but that works too.

I think this has come up before with someone suggesting than an all electric airplane without the vacuum backups would lose FIKI certification according to the STC. That may be true, but I frankly don’t care. I’m sure the FAA will be way too busy addressing all the people worked up over the use of the word “learner” that they won’t have time to violate me for it. That and the fact that even with my FIKI plane I rarely go into “known ice.”

This thread is so refreshing! I was starting to worry about WWIII and global economic collapse so it’s nice to have something truly important to spend my time worrying about. The fact is the FAA didn’t invent the term “learner” and it’s the term that basically everyone in education is using. Yes, I still call medical students “students.” interns “interns” and residents “residents.” Frankly, I don’t think anyone really cares if I call them students or learners, but it’s amusing for people to get so worked up over such a trivial change. Please, write to your congressional representative and let them know that this abuse of power wilL not stand! Or just find something else to waste your time on.

Mooney should really advertise this more (if they were still selling airplanes). I wonder if all Mooneys come equipped with autoland?

The homebuilt accident rate has always been higher than that for certified GA planes no matter how you slice it. I know for some people this isn’t an issue, but for me it is. We all complain about the costs of owning a certified plane but there does seem to be some value in the process for those who care about those things. My son loves drooling over my hangar neighbor’s RV. He’s even sat in it a couple of times. He will never fly in it as long as I get a say. I know that’s extreme but for me it’s just not a risk worth taking. It would be like saying “anesthesia isn’t risky enough already, why don’t we try it without all those expensive monitoring devices and make our own cocktail of meds?” No thank you. https://www.kitplanes.com/homebuilt-accidents-comparing-the-rates/

^^^^^^This You already have your answer. Call Greg at Advanced Aircraft in Troutdale. Or call Top Gun in Stockton and have them tell you to call Greg. Or read the previous threads on this that say to call Greg. All roads lead to Greg.

I think if cost was not an issue we would all have a turbo(prop). For me, costs were a consideration so I decided to get an Ovation. Prof. @aviatoreb sums it up pretty nicely.

I like Mite’s mom’s take on things and that was a very common strategy of her generation - avoid conflict at all costs. I recently saw a cirrhotic patient in her 30’s who’s entire household admitted to me that they clearly knew she had a problem but didn’t want to upset her by talking about it. She will either get a liver transplant soon or die. Neither one is a good choice and it likely could have been prevented if someone had intervened sooner. ”Be nice at all costs” works. Until it doesn’t. In my opinion, saying something bluntly can sometimes be more caring than not saying anything at all. A lot of denial and conflict avoidance took place in that generation (not that it doesn’t now) but I think we’ve learned that pretending something doesn’t exist and praying that it will just go away on its own doesn’t always end well. I’m not trying to excuse being an a-hole but sometimes the person confronting you about your dangerous behavior actually cares much more about you than all the people who noticed it and kept their mouths shut because they were “trying to be nice.”

I think you just figured it out! I took offense at your statement because it wasn’t true and misrepresented what I said. Not sure why you wouldn’t have expected that response. Most people don’t like it when others misrepresent what they say and make assertions that aren’t true. Yes, it would be great if people could be polite and informative all the time but sometimes you only get to choose one and in cases where lives are at risk I would rather have someone be informative than polite. I don’t really get my feelings hurt over what people on the internet say about me but I can definitely get hurt by following bad advice.

Having a polite informed discussion between two or more people requires them to be both polite and informed. When you simply quote a line of someone’s post and then make a derogatory statement regarding that post without either reading or comprehending the rest of the post that is neither polite nor informed. If you had bothered reading the rest of my post which you quoted you would have seen how I argued that some people are, in fact, capable of both and therefore it is not a “false dichotomy.” So did you not read the entire post, not understand it, or simply chose to ignore it because it didn’t support the false assertion your were trying to make? It takes two to tango. It’s a little disingenuous to accuse someone of displaying an undesirable behavior when you are doing it as well. I’m at least trying to be honest and transparent about what I’m doing.