INA201

Looks great!

Everything from football helmets, ladders, food, cars, and of course aircraft have had liability cost increases that can seriously hamper the ability to keep prices more reasonable. Kit planes do not carry the liability like certified do but the legal cases are beginning to show up.

The kit manufacturer can produce the wing at the factory, AKA Mooney, as long as the builder produces 51% of the kit. My post earlier showing both the high end with the Lancair and the RV 10 leads me to believe that a really nice J could be done in the $200-$250 range. If you went experimental on the engine, autopilot, Dynon displays, and did the paint and interior yourself you could probably do sub $200. Heck, don't listen to me on this as I'm just interpolating data off the internet on this one. I do like Lancair's concept of paying $90K and then flying in six months.

The Mako would be comparable to a new Mooney Ultra. I selected Lycoming, paint, interior, prop, their lowest avionics, and Fly-Away assistance(90K). The total came to $391,000. The Vans can be done for $200k I am thinking. The RV 10 quickbuild sells for $63,000. I'm not a huge fan of the Vans RV 10. My guess is you can pay someone to help too like the Lancair. http://lancair.com/mako-pricing-options/ https://www.vansaircraft.com/order-a-kit/kit-prices-and-lead-times/

This sounds nutty but if you just click edit on your photos and resize them even minutely they will load correctly. Makes no sense but works for me.

Best I can do today. These were take at 4:51pm on Tuesday near Lake Greenwood SC.

I have a hard time believing it takes 5,000 trained man hours to complete a Mooney but I will defer.

I'm in a nice J but if I could build my own with a UL possibly 300lbs more(AKA Missle GW) with the engine, ignition, avionics, interior, and paint scheme of your choice for under $200k ! Folks, its doable.

I have brought this up before without much support from the audience at MS. Vans and Rans both sell a lot of kits and the planes are everywhere. The cool thing about a J kit is the amateur builder only has to complete 51% of the plane. The marketing behind a J kit is that of a seriously proven design. Think of all of the tweaking that would go into one of these planes too. The factory could churn out parts, sell new, sell kits, and find a comfort zone of productivity and hopefully profitability. We all talk about Cirrus but Vans probably sells more kits than Cirrus sells planes. Of course you offer factory produced planes too.

I would concur with the notion to buy the plane you will end up with if at all possible. You will put a lot of time getting to know the plane and possibly work through squawks. If you know you’ll end up in a J I would just make that the goal. If you don’t foresee taking more than two folks along the C is a great plane. I went from an Archer to a J. The maintenance and upgrades you do will cost virtually the same regardless of the plane you choose. With a J versus a C you are simply storing more of your money in the plane until you decide to sell it. One good thing on these planes is they maintain their value in good and bad times. When the fuel prices go up we look great. When the economy gets tight we become a value through efficiency. When the economy is doing well we can haul butt and justify upgrading a little more. Good luck and best of all make the whole process fun!!

I have a thought on this J possibility. I don't have the time for this currently but would be a fun proposition. Take a group of say ten guys and incorporate an LLC or whatnot. Collectively buy a J with a solid core, no corrosion, etc. Bring in the MSCs and reputable avionics shops that want to partner on this complete refurbishment. Let's say you can find this plane for $75k. Let's also say that a tip to tail refurbishment can be completed for $125k more. You then sell for a no haggle price of $250K. I am betting one of us would even buy it. This would accomplish two things. It would show that it can be done. It would also show to the factory that they could also do it. You could even create a separate branding if it spun off on it's own. Think of the fun on MS picking paint color schemes or voting on the avionics package. I would consider putting my money into the first round but unfortunately my time is limited at this point.

On a serious note. This is good news and hopefully a plan of sorts is in place. I really do wish we were listened to moving forward but my guess is there will be some status quo. Good news for Kerrville and for the staff and employees of Mooney. I don’t fault Cubcrafters as they have done these postings with symbiotic intent in my opinion.

All I can say is all of us worked really hard getting Mooney back up and going. My thumbs are sore from all of the postings. The stress was almost unbearable. There is no I in team! Unbelievable! I just knew we worked great under immense pressure and it certainly has shown itself to be true. I yield the balance of my time to .........

Heck, you should’ve adjusted the AP to 800 just for kicks. Any comments on True Airspeed for comparison?

That’s impressive! Where did the 90lbs go? Seems like the 201 windshield and cowl enclosure wouldn’t add too much.

I don't know a lot about the Grumman AA-5 other than Roy Lopresti and his influence and design work on the AA-5 B Tiger. It is a similar story to the J series. We have a few Grumman built aircraft locally and everyone is happy and not grounded. The fact that some 11,000 Mooneys were produced leaves no need for long term parts concerns. Coming to grips with the continual decline in pilots and aircraft sales is really the tough pill to swallow. https://www.avweb.com/features/used-aircraft-guide-grumman-tiger/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_American_AA-5 https://grumman-parts.com/

This article sums up the Cirrus pretty thoroughly. https://philip.greenspun.com/flying/cirrus-sr20 1. Mooney Cruises a little faster 2. Mooney is more efficient 3. Repairs are easier and less expensive on the Mooney. 4. Chute repack may be comparable to tanks leaking in the Mooney 5. Insurance? 6. Maintenance costs? 7. Useful load is better in the Mooney 5. The Continental will require a top before a Lycosaur and a more expensive overhaul cost. 6. Cirrus has the chute 7. Cirrus is a little roomier and ergonomic on the inside. 8. Mooney gear retracts, looks better when flying 9. Longevity of the airframe is proven for decades in the Mooney 10. The Mooney is depreciated out the Cirrus may still drop some in value 12. Factory support? 13. It is a tough competitor but who's to say that the Cirrus doesn't have a ton of squawks while the Mooney is clean. It is hard to make a real accurate comparison by an ad alone. We need more data

Just pulled up the closest two currently available for sale off of Trade a Plane. More apples to apples. https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20J+201&listing_id=2370722&s-type=aircraft https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=CIRRUS&model=SR20&listing_id=2364350&s-type=aircraft

Simple Sellers ask a price. Buyers will pay a certain price. When the two values and parties agree with each other a sale is made. There are a gazillion parameters that affect both the sellers motivation and the buyers motivation of which the factory closure is just one possible part of the equation. Some sellers(wouldn’t be me)and or buyers would be affected by the closure. For example, fuel prices, the economy, divorce, new promotion at work, insurance, mission, airframe condition, kids in college, health, spousal anxiousness to get you in a plane haha, buyer anxious to get a plane NOW, job transfer, retirement, age, fear, stepping up in an aircraft, stepping down in an aircraft, tired of same aircraft, factory closure, etc etc.

While we are at it, are the wings and tail the same on the J and up too?

Hmmm, Defintely merit to this. China functions differently than we do for sure.

In my case I went by the elapsing of 41 years being appropriate for putting a new spring in. I didn’t want to do it but I’ve worked my way through most of the plane and this was one of the last boxes to check off.

$2606.57 at an MSC in July of 2019. Personally, I wouldn't have just any mechanic work on the gear.

What? Controlling Flight In Transition

That’s been my experience too! When other pilots jump in for a ride is when the assimilation begins. Not everyone is assimilated but many are for sure. Yes Cirrus and others have a modern look but the cool factor can’t exactly be put into words. The plane makes us do cool stuff too. While leaving the fly in you pull off the ground and stay low while gaining speed. At just the right moment the gear magically folds underneath...90kts...100kts...120kts now you know what to do next.