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Hello, I have gotten Conflicting stories Via Quotes on a GNX375 (ADSB transponder/GPS) install on an M20J, it stems around if I will have to swap output Antennas on the install. I have been told both ways. Can someone give me an educated explanation?

The part that is not intuitive is that retracting flaps at very slow speed does increase drag, something we can explain by plotting polar curves in clean and dirty configs. For illustration, retracting flaps fully at VS(clean) = stall = lot of drag and while in flap config at VS(clean) = flying = less drag. In the other hand, retracting gear always reduce drag. So there is a some speed cutoff at play: * If I am at 90kts, I would retract flaps first * If I am between VS(dirty) and VS(clean), I would retract gear first If my aim is to climb quick, I accelerate from VS0 to VY in ground effect, I tend to retract gear first between VS0 and VS1, then flaps once well above VS1. I rarely climb at VX with takeoff flap but if I do, I tend to retract gear after liftoff and I do no touch flaps until 1) cleared of obstacle and 2) I accelerated sufficiently toward 90kts-100kts I think correlating “flaps” to “drag” is unhealthy, especially when one flies slow speeds near “drag curve” or “near stall”, at slow speeds flaps add lift and they reduce “induced drag” between VS0 and VS1. To be honest, M20J flaps are not “that draggy”, if the aircraft fails to accelerate, it’s likely because pilot is using the whole wing as airbreak (pulling up at slow speeds between VS0 and VS1) rather than flaps? or flying in some high density altitude or some engine power problem? the gap between VS0 and VS1 is very wide in Mooney, one should not raise any flaps in middle of that large gap, they should concentrate on flying runway heading and accelerating in ground effect, this require gear up to reduce drag, accelerating above VS1, once well above VS1, retracting flaps tend to reduce drag…

A particularly sad case just happened here. https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/537784

A good reason to not land with full flaps. I use "take-off" or 15 degree flaps. Gear-up, power up and I am good to go with about the same trim. Then flaps up. And trim. Half flaps don't have the drag that you quote for full flaps. It makes Touch and Go's a breeze.

Put back my newly inspected 500h Slick Mag. Engine runs more smoothly in general, but didn't solve my LOP issue. I can get it running 29" 2300 10.1 but it's not 100% smooth as I would like. Good news is that my GAMI Injectors will be sent out this week. Another good news is I had an little oil leak that been hard to find over the last 12 months. If my detective work is correct, then it was leaking from the Oil Stick rubber hose. Fitted 2x new clamps and a new rubber hose and made sure that the metal tubes got connected as they should. Last flight over an hour it appear that it stopped leaking... It was not leaking much, but it flying around everywhere making a mess.

Yeah, I get that would be optimal if I was starting from scratch, but right now I just need a new charging system and want it to work even if I can't draw the full power. Maybe one day everything else gets upgraded so I can add pitot heat and autopilot etc

Indeed, uncle Garmin wanted regular catch-up, uncle Sam and uncle Fed are fine with "once in a while" as long as it's sensible I have database subscription and I have two memory cards, however, sometimes I happen to need few days to update G430W: the processes is not practical (the only reason why I have a PC at home). In the other hand, keeping an iPad EFB up to date with all waypoints, routes and procedures is smooth and easy these days. Let say that flying tend to balance legality with practicality and what is acceptable risk. Maybe one day with Garmin + Starlink, updates will be automatic, then this happens !!

I repeated Don's experiment in my M20J MSE at 2500' and an initial speed of 100KIAS. Gear down reduced airspeed to 77 KIAS, flaps full down 78 KIAS, gear and flaps both 70 KIAS. So gear and flaps were approximately the same with a 23 KIAS reduction. One of the issues with Mooneys is that the control forces can be higher than many other airplanes of similar size and weight. Sometimes you have to push or pull pretty hard to make the airplane go where you want it to go until you get it back in trim. There is nothing wrong with using two hands on the yoke if that's what it takes. If you check the stall speed table in the POH, you'll notice that Mooney flaps reduce stall speed more than most other comparable airplanes. But, most of the stall speed reduction comes from extending full flaps. The takeoff flap setting mainly changes the deck angle and adds a little drag.

I can see your interpretation now and agree. It reinforces my point that older pilots that lose their medical will just whip out their driver's license, fly as a Sport Pilot and continue to fly just as they always did regardless of the limitations supposedly self-imposed (actually imposed by no-one.). It puts more burden on family members to "take the keys away from Grandpa". And thinking about my comment more, those that are currently suffering deep depression or have corrected vision to only 20/70, night vision problems, debilitating health issues, etc. in most states are generally able to get a drivers license (with or without Limitations). Also in Texas, with a DUI conviction you may be able to get an "Occupational Drivers License" for necessary driving. But the Sport Pilot Reg says nothing about drivers license limitations. So they can all qualify to fly as Sport Pilot.

Love the PPT and I think I'm going to give it a go to just keep my old DB and confirm the fixes!! Oh wait... my Uncle Garmin says I can't do that any more.

Back on the market - buyer's financing fell through. Motivated Seller.

I totally agree with MikeOH on this one. I own odd AMC 60s cars, and they sell steering and brake parts for them at reasonable prices. The liability is the same or higher than an airplane since the part can fail and harm people and property. It even might be better if they stopped making the clamp completely. Then since the part is unavailable, we can either fabricate our own or use a superior clamp that is out on the market. Who are they going to sue if there is an incident? The auto part maker did not see me the part as an "aircraft" part. I cant sue myself, people on the ground might sue me, but I have liability insurance. The point is, the heavy automotive racing type clamps are far superior to the "traceable" clamps and American manufacturers of these part DO know the history of the metallurgy of those parts too, because they dont want to be sued by people driving fast cars with turbo chargers. By pricing the clamps so high, it just causes people not to change the clamps and keep running the ones they have as long as they can (since the AD was extended until next year for these clamps now), how is that safer for skies?

It seems the only having done it so far had to get two then thx for the replies

A complication on a go-around for some is that you're already at flying speed when full power is applied, so it may require significant pitch-up to keep below gear transit speed. On my airplane it is a bit of a dance, and if you get it wrong the gear breaker pops, which adds an unwelcome dimension to a go-around. So getting the gear up asap makes sense, before the airplane accelerates past transit speed or before you have to pitch way up to keep it there. It can help, and I've heard others here say they do this, too, to just apply about half throttle, get the gear up, then go to full throttle for the go-around. However it works for you and your airplane, I think this just highlights why it's good to practice this stuff frequently enough to stay proficient.

Check with Powermasters in Tulsa... experts in the 550's especially. I believe Mitch had their former Ovation engine done there and posted about it here many years ago after I gave that vector. Beechtalk is full of great PIREPs as well, and Bill C even participates there. He'll have a backlog (likely) and be at the mercy of the supply chain, but I bet it will be faster than the factory. One nice touch they do is re-work new factory cylinders and get the valves installed correctly so that they'll run for more than the typical 700-900 hours before they need to come off. For installation, plan for 40 +/- hours of labor. I did mine 100% by myself (Lycoming on my J though) and it was not difficult. Great opportunity for sweat equity!

Very good discussion...Here is a question to add to the gear and flap order. Would it be reasonable to add enough power to keep the airplane flying and lessen the brisk pitch up. maybe push yoke and trim first ......and avoid a stall?? can we add that to the mix? Alan Long body M20R

I don't doubt you, but this is the response I got when I asked my current broker why an E model was the same cost as an Ovation: "Aviation insurance premiums are a % of the hull value. With that, similar hull valued Mooney’s tend to have similar premiums."

@Moondoggy, @1980Mooney and everyone else: this is the relevant page in the Owners Manual / POH to determine if Sport Pilot privileges are relevant. So for my C, 70 mphi = 67 mph CAS; Vs1 = 67 mphi = 64 mph CAS = 55.6 KCAS. So yes, a Sport Pilot can legally fly my C, if he can get both my permission and my keys . . . . Yes, that would be an unusual request, and would require additional instruction (most likely) equivalent to a Complex Endorsement for Day VFR flight only.

A64Pilot, I agree that flight testing is not always cut and dry! As a test engineer for modifications made to USAF C-20H and C-37 aircraft, I found it apparent that each aircraft tested had variances from the computed/expected limitations. Barring unexplained deviations from the mean data, we would set the limitation tipping more to the safe side of the envelope we were testing. The M20 TCDS (2A3) doesn't publish the VS1 for any model. Therefore, the MOSAIC final rule, which recommends using AC90-89A to determine VS1, may be used to determine the clean stall of specific models. My experience tells me that weight will be the key factor impacting VS1 if the airfoil is not altered. There are differences in the wing design over the years. Besides the wingtip fairings, which in my opinion have a limited effect on slow flight, specific year ranges of M20s incorporate more washout into the wing. Those years all have an MTGW under 2740LBS. The FAA definition implies that the published lower limit of the green arc is VS1, which I would use to determine the clean stall speed. To determine the application of the Sport Pilot limitation, we need only adjust the published KIAS range to a KCAS range. 1980Mooney, The folks I was referring to had no psychological issues prior to being told they could no longer exercise their pilot privileges. The loss of identity when this happens can be devastating to a lifelong pilot. - Cheers

Depends how badly your pax want to be on the ground . . .

Great point. My mistake.

Did the servos in wing and tailcone get removed? Servos are on ebay and not that expensive. I did majority of installation of an AccuFlite with Avionics tech doing install of on/off switch in panel. If the tubing has been removed on sidewall that would be a pain, but if it is just replacing torn rubber on servos and reconnecting it is not that complicated and definitely not that expensive...Unless adding unnecessary altitude hold. With heading bug set and plane trimmed mine holds course and flies hands free. Nevermind...I see now you punted. No CB Club for you

Deep depression is a "benign condition"? Hmmm. I don't think the medical community, aviation community or the families of the 150 victims of the Germanwings Flight 9525 deliberate crash into the Swiss Alps 10 years ago would agree. But since those afflicted can drive and carry guns here, then why not let them fly....

I would of laughed at the guy as well. Worked for Chubb years ago. Affluent loved to have appraisal increase on property and could not wait for privilege to pay way more. Me? Not so much.

Agreed I think this is a critical point. It is just like (and should be like) any other takeoff. If you are forced into a "Go Around" situation, your mind is likely preoccupied on other distractions - weather, visibility, down to minimums (or you busted) on a difficult instrument approach, unexpected traffic conflict (or animals, cars or other planes on the runway) in untowered airports, etc. You should not need to think about how to "go around" - it should be muscle memory. Gear then Flaps...Gear then Flaps. If you are in the clag then your eyes will be on the instruments to insure you are climbing on the right heading/attitude. KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid.