Ron McBride Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 My prop is at the point of needing some work, blades are leaking grease at the hub. This is an ECI hub, ad required every hundred hours. I has been suggested that I overhaul the prop and get the oil filled hub conversion completed. $3700.00. My blades were replaced at the last overhaul, in 1990 and 1550 hours ago. My plane is a 69F Have you had any problems with your converted prop? Any other suggestions? Thanks Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 I asked and the shop not want to do the conversion. The design was for grease... so an oil may not stay in as well as grease I can do alot of inspections for the price of a new hub or new top prop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 I just asked my prop shop about the conversion and they said that while they did several when the option came out, they no longer recommend the oil conversion. We just had the prop on our 67F overhauled this week. ECI's run $125. Economically it makes most sense to OH and continue the ECI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
air cooled dad Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I just had my eci yesterday. Sensenich in Gainesville, GA. Prop shop said cracks are rare but they've seen two. I got a chance to look at the hub. It had a very obvious crack that could be easily seen. For such a rare event, why not just continue with the eci hub? $125 vs thousands... I've attached a pic of our hub. Jason 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron McBride Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I need to do a prop reseal at a minimum. I was just thinking to complete the red oil portion of the AD and not need the eci checks every 100 hours. The prop would be apart already. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htwjr Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I had my prop overhauled and replaced the hub at my first annual a couple of years ago. The total cost was around $5,000 and the hub was about 1/2 the cost. There was not anywhere local to do the eci and I figured if I had to fly an hour or so, schedule and pay for the eci every hundred hours it was worth the $2k-2.5K for the hub. If I had someone local to do the eci that would be different. I figured it was worth a few hundred a year not to have to mess with it or worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Htwjr said: ... The total cost was around $5,000 and the hub was about 1/2 the cost.... As I recall, Hartzell had an unbeatable deal on a replacement hub when the AD first came out. I'm not sure why not everyone jumped on it then. It pinched me at the time, but I'm glad I did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 38 minutes ago, Mooneymite said: As I recall, Hartzell had an unbeatable deal on a replacement hub when the AD first came out. I'm not sure why not everyone jumped on it then. It pinched me at the time, but I'm glad I did it. They did. I think it was around 2006 when they had the special deal. I took advantage of it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I took the Hartzell deal. I'm pretty sure it was 2007 when I had the work done. The hub was half price. I even had Hartzell do the overhaul at their factory facility in Piqua. My situation was the same as @Htwjr. I had no qualified shop on the field so I had to take a day off work and fly to the nearest prop shop every 100hrs. There also wasn't anyone in the area offering an ECI for $125. Between the ECI fee, fuel cost, and my time it was easily over $500 each time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, N803RM said: I need to do a prop reseal at a minimum. I was just thinking to complete the red oil portion of the AD and not need the eci checks every 100 hours. The prop would be apart already. Ron Talk to your prop shop. Randy at East Coast Propeller is of the opinion that the red oil mod creates more potential problems than it solves. You're currently having a challenge keeping grease in a hub that was designed to hold grease; how well do you think it will hold light weight oil? $125 every year or so to not have to fix something that was never broken is a rounding error in an annual aviation budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron McBride Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Shadrack I have talked to 2 shops, both say that my prop leaks are the 26 year old seals. Both are recommending the oil filled prop, or if I can find a newer hub. Yes, eci inspections are about a $100.00. It is still about an hours flying time each way, but a nice restaurant to enjoy while the inspection is being made. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 On 10/25/2016 at 6:28 PM, N803RM said: Shadrack I have talked to 2 shops, both say that my prop leaks are the 26 year old seals. Both are recommending the oil filled prop, or if I can find a newer hub. Yes, eci inspections are about a $100.00. It is still about an hours flying time each way, but a nice restaurant to enjoy while the inspection is being made. Ron Ron, there is no doubt that seals get brittle and herniate with age. My point was that they will be grease tight longer than they will be oil tight. I am simple relaying what I was told by my prop guy. $3700 just does not make sense to me economically, but then my NDT guy will drive to my hangar to perform the ECI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Pressley Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I prefer the old type hub for a different reason. Those old hubs were built like a truck. They would overhaul after a prop strike again and again. The new B hub has a thin shelf inside and very very seldom is it possible to overhaul after a strike. I just had a Comanche prop with minor nicks on one blade while the other blade was still nice. tt on the entire prop was 68 hours. Western Propeller just disassembled it and found the shelf cracked. The best is an A hub as it does not require inspection and still has the heavy interior. I believe there is a hidden agenda in the woodpile at Hartzell. Jerry P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmaster Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 7 hours ago, Guitarmaster said: Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk A picture is often worth a thousand words, but in this case a back story would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 I have to wonder how many cracked Hartzell hubs had suffered a prop strike before they cracked? Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmaster Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Cody Stallings had this in his shop when I went there. It was a failed ECI. He should be able to give some history.All I know is that it flew into the shop. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 I was in the same position last year. After much discussion with the prop shop, who didn't recommend the oil-filled option, I bought a new hub with no AD. It cost $3500, plus labor to fit it. If I was still living in the US, I would have kept the old hub and done the ECI regularly - but over here in Europe that was too much hassle, as there are so few prop shops that can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Pressley Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 the photo shows a huge break but not in then the area that is covered by the eddy current. shops run a probe along the 4 holes on the front side. that would not have found this break. so I still contend the old A hub is the best. jerry P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Maybe @Cody Stallings could give us some details. Was this break discovered by ECI? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Stallings Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Yes it was Discovered via Eddy Current. It was not visable to the eye till we took the prop apart because of the indications being picked up. Our level 3 doing the inspection is the kind of guy that will check the whole hub, not just what's spoke of in the AD. Once the hub bolts were removed, an hub halfs seperated, did it show itself. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macosxuser Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 10/26/2016 at 0:23 PM, acpartswhse said: I prefer the old type hub for a different reason. Those old hubs were built like a truck. They would overhaul after a prop strike again and again. The new B hub has a thin shelf inside and very very seldom is it possible to overhaul after a strike. I just had a Comanche prop with minor nicks on one blade while the other blade was still nice. tt on the entire prop was 68 hours. Western Propeller just disassembled it and found the shelf cracked. The best is an A hub as it does not require inspection and still has the heavy interior. I believe there is a hidden agenda in the woodpile at Hartzell. Jerry P For whatever its worth, it's no longer legal to use a Hub that has had a prop strike that renders a blade unusable. This is in Harzell's current guidance to their prop shops. I do believe it's a money making proposition for them, but there it is. I had two of them that were in pretty hard strikes (B hubs) that were otherwise completely fine (the prop shop verified that there was nothing wrong, other than the strike.) I don't think the blade shelf on the B hub is less robust than the straight hub, in fact, if you look at the cutaway of the B hub in the picture above, it's quite robust. The lack of ability to reuse is simply a factor of Harzell's overhaul guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 2 hours ago, macosxuser said: For whatever its worth, it's no longer legal to use a Hub that has had a prop strike that renders a blade unusable. This is in Harzell's current guidance to their prop shops. I do believe it's a money making proposition for them, but there it is. I had two of them that were in pretty hard strikes (B hubs) that were otherwise completely fine (the prop shop verified that there was nothing wrong, other than the strike.) I don't think the blade shelf on the B hub is less robust than the straight hub, in fact, if you look at the cutaway of the B hub in the picture above, it's quite robust. The lack of ability to reuse is simply a factor of Harzell's overhaul guidance. It may just be that their lawyers have driven a policy of no reuse after a prop strike. It also seems to be common policy for some prop shops to issue a new log book at overhaul. This policy removes all previous history on the propeller, so if there was a previous prop strike, the history is lost. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Pressley Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 HELP!!! I have searched high and low for the AD that says the old hubs cannot be reused after a prop strike. I can understand that Hartzell would want to retire them and sell a B hub but they were certified by the FAA and a service bulletin can't eliminate them unless used as part 121. Owners such as you and I are not affected by SBs unless mandatory SB I believe. Correct me if I am wrong. Of course aerobatic aircraft are in a world of their own. And if you will check with a few prop shops you will find the B hub is more fragile. The great lady at western propeller has one down now and she is very helpful. Jerry Pressley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Pressley Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Cody, You are into these things every day, what say you on B fragility? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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