Is there an argument for a reworked M22 Mustang?

[KSMooniac]

What is the current price on a Duke engine these days?

[Skypylott]

Well that's a loaded question I know of two TIO-541-E1A4 engines which are actually out of a Beech Baron 56TC same 380HP as a TIO-541-E1C4 Beech Duke engine just a variant for the Baron. for $6000.00 ea. They are run out overhaul able cores. The overhaul cost for the layman is about 50 to 55K. I have an advantage in that area because we have our own engine shop and can do the overhaul much cheaper. I also know of a guy here in Arizona with a Mustang and he has a spare basket case TIO-541-AIA Mustang engine and also a complete TIO-541-E1C4 Beech Duke engine. Don't know if he wants to sell them or how much he would want for them. He also told me he actually has a set of installation drawings/plans to install the Beech Duke engine into a Mustang. As the tale goes someone has already done this but didn't get it approved by FAA. 

[KSMooniac]

Interesting.  I thought the Duke engines weren't supported very well, or were very, very expensive to overhaul.  It is an intriguing option to keep an M22 going.  

[Skypylott]

56TC Baron and Duke engines supported by Lycoming company in Colorado the gurus called "The New Firewall Forward". The Mooney engine TIO-541-A1A not supported because was designed strictly for Mustang and when Mustang went away so did support for engine even though it is same family has different cylinders, camshaft, lifters etc. Although there is a field approval to use the Duke engine lifters in the Mustang.Do you have a Mustang?

[KSMooniac]

I do not have a Mustang, but am following along with your topics out of curiosity primarily.  I would have loved to see the M22 develop/evolve as much as the M20 line.  I can't say I would never own one, but you never know!    I'm an engineer in the industry and do a lot of my own wrenching under supervision by an IA/DER friend of mine, so I've thought now and then about the possibilities with an M22.

Also, be very, very wary of the NFF folks.  There is a lot of smoke on the web about their business practices and ethics.  I have no experience with them, but have read a lot of bad things.  Beechtalk.com has some of the tales.

[Skypylott]

I too would have loved to see the Mustang develop and evolve after owning one and restoring it we know the systems and how everything works it was and awesome design and engineering accomplishment for the 60's all in Mooney fashion. I don't really do any business with the NFF as I said we have our own engine shop and other sources for the outside work and parts I just know a few Duke owners that went to firewall forward for engines and we actually ended up doing some warranty work for them that FF paid us to do so the owners didn't have to take their aircraft back to Colorado. They have had some issues since becoming the New FF but I think they will recover. They hold some good product improvement STC's on the Duke engine such as a drilled camshaft for better lubrication the biggest weak spot of the TIO-541 engine family. My Mustang has a retractable step that they quit doing after 1968 but was an engineering marvel it retracts up level then pulls flat into baggage floor, I love that. The cabin door is a engineering accomplishment as well Mooney was so proud of that they patented it.  

[N601RX]

I put their camshaft in my engine when we assembled it.  I sent a new camshaft to them to drill and they promised it would be returned the next day.  It took over 3 months to get it back.  They will not answer the phone, or return calls.  The only way to get them to return a call is to leave a message saying you would like to get a quote on a engine overhaul.  They told me one story after another and many of the employees left during this time period.   After 3 months and getting someone who is based on their field to walk over,  I found out that they do not even own the STC for the CAM mod.  Someone else owns it and license  it to them.  They were not paying their bills and he quit providing the paperwork.  After getting into contact with the STC owner, he picked up my cam and drilled it the next day and returned it to me.  I paid him directly. 

[Skypylott]

Oh Oh I did not know that who owns the STC? How long ago was this? Maybe The New Firewall Forward won't be around long. I really only have dealt with the old Firewall Forward. They have always been the Duke engine guys but not the only ones, we have done a few over the years. How did the cam work out after you finally got it back? WWW.A1AERO.COM  

[Skypylott]

Dang, just tried to visit my own website and it says it has been disabled I need to find out why