Let's buy Mooney - Crowdsourced Version - Straw dog.

[1980Mooney]

4 hours ago, Schllc said:

I share all of the same suspicions, and have had nearly all the same reactions to lasar’s rollout. 
i also sent an email with some of my impressions and perceptions. Another member here had done the same and set up a conference call with Brett and John to get a better explanation.  
In that conversation the idea was floated for a town hall of sorts. 
They seem to have genuine good intentions, and while this is in no way a solely altruistic venture for these guys, their success would mean a more stable future for the fleet.

They are listening to our comments and grappling with how to package this in a way that accurately describes their needs and what they intend to provide. 
I would suggest anyone who genuinely wants to provide constructive input, to email them directly, and participate in the meeting if it comes about. 

Also, we aren’t talking the kinds of figures that brings in a marketing team and some huge structure. Even if the parts division was running like a Swiss clock, we aren’t talking about millions of dollars a year in profit. 
there is room in this deal for the owners to make money and for the fleet to get serviced fairly.  Finding that sweet spot isn’t going to be free, and to think it would be cheaper to go bankrupt, and restart from scratch is fantasy. 
I don’t know if what they are attempting will work, but I heard enough to believe if they can fix this packaging problem and better define how contributors can benefit, it may actually work. 
They are still finding out the mess that Mooney was, and know what needs to be done, and are sorting it out.  
Mooney did not even have a database that they could query for inventory management. 
This was shocking to me, something so basic and critical for any manufacturing supplier, was left in the 70’s tech. They appear to be very close to converting that, which is a huge step.  
I am stopping short of advocating for this assurance plan, but there is potential to make it work, and am much more supportive than I was since talking to them. 

You mention "finding the sweet spot".  If the intent is to support an existing fleet by solely manufacturing parts then there is no "sweet spot" in buying the equity of an airplane manufacturing company.  Buying equity means buying the assets and assuming the liabilities of a company structured to make and sell complete airplanes.  

It didn't work for FletchAir(Grumman/Tiger), Belanca, Commander, Aerostar, and I am sure there are others.  They all bought only the assets (the "intellectual property" and sometimes a few assets like jigs/fixtures) in a bankruptcy sale.  It was literally an "auction on the courthouse steps".  They have all been successful in supporting their legacy fleets.  It only worked if they swept the Liability ledger clean, free and clear, so that they could start fresh rightsized for just parts manufacturing.

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, christaylor302 said:

Could the factory make a profit if it provided labor services? Repairs, tank reseals, painting, annuals? These are all things the factory did to release a new planes. It would compete with MSCs but would give us more options and could help fund the parts production. 

Note a few posts above that the Mooney factory started providing Annuals and repairs in April 2022, and stopped earlier this year. I have to assume that they ceased because it was not profitable.  And sealing a new tank is a lot simpler than the mess of stripping old tanks and repairing or resealing.  The same with paint.

[christaylor302]

I understand the stripping for tanks a paint prep would be added work to why they did before.

I’m just exploring ideas on how it could be a profitable business to keep parts production alive.

I would like to know why they stopped providing annuals. Maybe they lost the A&P/IA doing the work? I can’t imagine they couldn’t make a profit from it. Otherwise no one would be doing annuals. Perhaps it was just a mismanaged process.

Even if it goes nowhere, I’ll enjoy exploring the idea of resurrecting Mooney.

[Yetti]

6 hours ago, christaylor302 said:

I understand the stripping for tanks a paint prep would be added work to why they did before.

I’m just exploring ideas on how it could be a profitable business to keep parts production alive.

I would like to know why they stopped providing annuals. Maybe they lost the A&P/IA doing the work? I can’t imagine they couldn’t make a profit from it. Otherwise no one would be doing annuals. Perhaps it was just a mismanaged process.

Even if it goes nowhere, I’ll enjoy exploring the idea of resurrecting Mooney.

See my note about providing annuals along with upgrades.     I think the factory just offered annuals.  Cirrus has an upgrade path on their panels.    There needs to be a cash cow before airplanes are built.   The Factory added capability of carbon fiber in building the last versions of the M20.   That would go a long way in the Air Taxi builds. 

[hazek]

It seems to me, a relatively new owner (since last year), that no one here really knows what's been going on at the factory. And while this is fun:

7 hours ago, christaylor302 said:

Even if it goes nowhere, I’ll enjoy exploring the idea of resurrecting Mooney.

No one can fix a problem that they don't understand. This is why I don't appreciate being asked for money. Because I don't understand the problem and I doubt it's money.

[toto]

10 hours ago, christaylor302 said:

Could the factory make a profit if it provided labor services? Repairs, tank reseals, painting, annuals? These are all things the factory did to release a new planes. It would compete with MSCs but would give us more options and could help fund the parts production. 

That’s what they were doing with the factory service center

[MikeOH]

58 minutes ago, Yetti said:

See my note about providing annuals along with upgrades.     I think the factory just offered annuals. 

Well, I'd still like to understand why/how they were even unable to make annuals a profit center; that seems pretty basic to me.

59 minutes ago, Yetti said:

There needs to be a cash cow before airplanes are built.

I think just a cash calf would be nice, at this point

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

The Factory added capability of carbon fiber in building the last versions of the M20. 

Did they?  I thought that project was entirely out of Chino (KCNO)..I'm skeptical all that equipment and expertise/knowledge was transferred to Kerrville when the project was cancelled.  Do you know?

[Schllc]

46 minutes ago, hazek said:

It seems to me, a relatively new owner (since last year), that no one here really knows what's been going on at the factory. And while this is fun:

No one can fix a problem that they don't understand. This is why I don't appreciate being asked for money. Because I don't understand the problem and I doubt it's money.

You are correct, money is seldomly the problem, and more often than not the symptom.  But once the problem is identified, and a plan is devised, money will absolutely be needed.  

I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything at this juncture.  What I am suggesting is that this is kind of the only option on the table, so what is the harm with permitting the benefit of the doubt?  No matter what they say or offer, there will be skeptics and people who choose not to participate.  No way around this, but bashing the only folks trying to right the ship doesn't seem to be particularly helpful either, but this is good discussion, and hopefully they will listen and take to heart.

[MikeOH]

2 minutes ago, Schllc said:

I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything at this juncture.  What I am suggesting is that this is kind of the only option on the table, so what is the harm with permitting the benefit of the doubt?  No matter what they say or offer, there will be skeptics and people who choose not to participate.  No way around this, but bashing the only folks trying to right the ship doesn't seem to be particularly helpful either, but this is good discussion, and hopefully they will listen and take to heart.

Well said.

I do find the 'guilt tripping' attempts against those of us who are skeptical, and therefore parsimonious with 'donations', to be a bit annoying, however.

I wish all involved the best of luck, though I think it will be skill that is able to successfully put those 'donations' to use!  Obviously, I'll be waiting until the opportunity rises to a level of investment

[hazek]

24 minutes ago, Schllc said:

so what is the harm with permitting the benefit of the doubt?

What is the harm? How about the community throwing away 10s of thousands of USD that could be spent more productively? You don't consider that harm if it's wasted?

[bonal]

It may come as a surprise to some of you that not everyone flying and owning a Mooney has massive amounts of disposable income that can just provide a significant investment into something so ambiguous as this.  Don’t want to see LASAR or Mooney fail but it’s really not our responsibility to insure their success.  People are free to do whatever they like with their money but I take offense from anyone trying to guilt folks into this.

[00-Negative]

Someone here mentioned that LASAR had the seat rollers out of stock. Evidently they listened and have now updated their stock.  I purchased new rollers for my plane last year. In the screenshot, you can see today's price and also my invoice from 1/2024 to the right. Quite the price increase. I would like to think this is nothing more than a human decimal error, but I suspect it is not. This coincides with other updated pricing I've seen with LASAR. The sad truth is, I think we are far better off if Mooney shutters for good. Other orphaned airplane owners referenced earlier in this thread have fared far better than we will with LASAR in place.  Some folks think that investing in LASAR's success will help protect the value of their Mooney. I think that increasing part costs by 1000% will quickly devalue the fleet. 

I think what LASAR is not telling us is that this deal is happening regardless of contributions to the Mooney Assurance program. I just don't know if their plan for profitability is well thought-out considering it's on the backs of the cheapest bastards in aviation. 

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, 00-Negative said:

Someone here mentioned that LASAR had the seat rollers out of stock. Evidently they listened and have now updated their stock.  I purchased new rollers for my plane last year. In the screenshot, you can see today's price and also my invoice from 1/2024 to the right. Quite the price increase. I would like to think this is nothing more than a human decimal error, but I suspect it is not. This coincides with other updated pricing I've seen with LASAR. The sad truth is, I think we are far better off if Mooney shutters for good. Other orphaned airplane owners referenced earlier in this thread have fared far better than we will with LASAR in place.  Some folks think that investing in LASAR's success will help protect the value of their Mooney. I think that increasing part costs by 1000% will quickly devalue the fleet. 

I think what LASAR is not telling us is that this deal is happening regardless of contributions to the Mooney Assurance program. I just don't know if their plan for profitability is well thought-out considering it's on the backs of the cheapest bastards in aviation. 

Holy crap I have a bag of those I cut from some Derlin rod.    I am sitting on a gold mine. 

[Echo]

2 hours ago, 00-Negative said:

Someone here mentioned that LASAR had the seat rollers out of stock. Evidently they listened and have now updated their stock.  I purchased new rollers for my plane last year. In the screenshot, you can see today's price and also my invoice from 1/2024 to the right. Quite the price increase. I would like to think this is nothing more than a human decimal error, but I suspect it is not. This coincides with other updated pricing I've seen with LASAR. The sad truth is, I think we are far better off if Mooney shutters for good. Other orphaned airplane owners referenced earlier in this thread have fared far better than we will with LASAR in place.  Some folks think that investing in LASAR's success will help protect the value of their Mooney. I think that increasing part costs by 1000% will quickly devalue the fleet. 

I think what LASAR is not telling us is that this deal is happening regardless of contributions to the Mooney Assurance program. I just don't know if their plan for profitability is well thought-out considering it's on the backs of the cheapest bastards in aviation. 

THAT price shows WHY Lasar is NOT the answer, but a problem.  Not only do they NOT have my support, I wish them failure.  That price is predatory.  Chuck that!

[IvanP]

3 hours ago, 00-Negative said:

 Some folks think that investing in LASAR's success will help protect the value of their Mooney. I think that increasing part costs by 1000% will quickly devalue the fleet. 

I think what LASAR is not telling us is that this deal is happening regardless of contributions to the Mooney Assurance program. I just don't know if their plan for profitability is well thought-out considering it's on the backs of the cheapest bastards in aviation. 

According to the PR blurp published by LASAR that touted "transparency" and other corporate BS, the price of all Mooney produced parts was going up by 30%. So much for honesty and transparency - 30% declared increase vs 1000% actual increase.  -  

[hammdo]

5 hours ago, 00-Negative said:

Someone here mentioned that LASAR had the seat rollers out of stock. Evidently they listened and have now updated their stock.  I purchased new rollers for my plane last year. In the screenshot, you can see today's price and also my invoice from 1/2024 to the right. Quite the price increase. I would like to think this is nothing more than a human decimal error, but I suspect it is not. This coincides with other updated pricing I've seen with LASAR. The sad truth is, I think we are far better off if Mooney shutters for good. Other orphaned airplane owners referenced earlier in this thread have fared far better than we will with LASAR in place.  Some folks think that investing in LASAR's success will help protect the value of their Mooney. I think that increasing part costs by 1000% will quickly devalue the fleet. 

I think what LASAR is not telling us is that this deal is happening regardless of contributions to the Mooney Assurance program. I just don't know if their plan for profitability is well thought-out considering it's on the backs of the cheapest bastards in aviation. 

I went OPP, got a drawing made from the originals and had mine made out of Delrin. $50 for 8 of them… guess I got lucky…

-Don

[1980Mooney]

8 hours ago, 00-Negative said:

Someone here mentioned that LASAR had the seat rollers out of stock. Evidently they listened and have now updated their stock.  I purchased new rollers for my plane last year. In the screenshot, you can see today's price and also my invoice from 1/2024 to the right. Quite the price increase. I would like to think this is nothing more than a human decimal error, but I suspect it is not. This coincides with other updated pricing I've seen with LASAR. The sad truth is, I think we are far better off if Mooney shutters for good. Other orphaned airplane owners referenced earlier in this thread have fared far better than we will with LASAR in place.  Some folks think that investing in LASAR's success will help protect the value of their Mooney. I think that increasing part costs by 1000% will quickly devalue the fleet. 

I think what LASAR is not telling us is that this deal is happening regardless of contributions to the Mooney Assurance program. I just don't know if their plan for profitability is well thought-out considering it's on the backs of the cheapest bastards in aviation. 

$931.76 to simply buy the rollers to upgrade both front seats?!!!  They are out of their fricking minds.  And any time I have purchased from Mooney here in Texas I got stuck with Sales Tax on top of it.  Adding shipping you are probably parting with a cool $1,000.....  

With parts prices like this Owners will just start deferring more and more maintenance.  

[MikeOH]

30 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

With parts prices like this Owners will just start deferring more and more maintenance.  

And, OPP. That’s the path I’ll likely take. Along with boneyards.