Vibration dampening for PAR46 landing lights?

[bcg]

My C model eats landing lights, filament or LED style.  I've had 2 AeroLED PAR46 lamps fail in the last 3 years, at $200 a pop, it gets expensive.

I'm pretty sure it's vibration killing them, has anyone figured out a way to dampen that and get longer life out of them?  I'm thinking about putting a rubber gasket between it and the back and another between it and the front retaining ring, I'm not sure it would help much thought.  It's still going to have the aiming/set screws from the back side locking it into the cowl and there will be contact all the way around on the edge of the lamp so the gaskets aren't going to kill the vibration completely.  I already replaced my engine mounts in December after installing a new light in November and I still had to replace that light this month so, while the mounts definitely made the airplane feel smoother, they didn't help the landing light.

I don't fly at night so I don't actually *NEED* the light, it just bugs me to have it not working during the pre-flight and I like to turn it on when I'm on final to make myself more visible.

[Old Chub]

When was the last time the propeller/rotating assembly dynamically balanced ?  

[bcg]

When was the last time the propeller/rotating assembly dynamically balanced ?  

I had the prop IRANed 18 months or so ago. That includes disassembly, new seals, dressing the blades, paint and a static balance. I haven't done a dynamic balance, I'm sure it would help some. Since doing the motor mounts though I don't feel any vibration in the airplane.

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[GeeBee]

13 minutes ago, bcg said:

I had the prop IRANed 18 months or so ago. That includes disassembly, new seals, dressing the blades, paint and a static balance. I haven't done a dynamic balance, I'm sure it would help some. Since doing the motor mounts though I don't feel any vibration in the airplane.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk
 

You won't feel vibration (barely) until about .04 ips and a prop balance will get you to .02 or .01 ips 

[bcg]

20 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

You won't feel vibration (barely) until about .04 ips and a prop balance will get you to .02 or .01 ips 

I'm sure a dynamic balance would make a difference, not discounting that at all.  That said, for the sake of argument let's say I'm at .06 or so since I'm not feeling it, shouldn't a $200 PMAed landing light be able to handle that for more than a few months?  Prop balance changes over time anyway so, even if I got it down to .01 in a year it might be .04+ again from prop wear.

I'm thinking that if I can dampen the vibration at the lamp either instead of or in addition to reducing overall vibration, that it will help.  I ordered one of these - https://skygeek.com/whelen-4006300-gasket.html.  Hopefully it helps some, it definitely can't hurt.  

These - https://www.aeroresourcesinc.com/product_category/product_detail/61 - are supposed to reduce wind buffet and help as well, $115 for a piece of acrylic seems expensive though.  If someone else has installed one and can confirm it makes a difference, it would be worth it to save the expense or replacing lamps, I don't want to be the guinea pig for that price though.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

We extrude a u channel seal for the nose bracket light and two seals for the nose light Assy 

one on each side of the flange

ams3320.093 

 

I have not seen your installation 

maybe this would help 

[N201MKTurbo]

My old M20F used to eat landing lights. They only quit when I touched down. I started turning it off on short final and then turning it back on to taxi. 
 

My theory was if the filament was hot and soft, the slightest bump would knock it apart. I can’t explain why the LED lights would fail for the same reason.

BTW, I landed so many times without the landing light on, I still turn it off when I land. The light freaks me out now. It gets the tower excited sometimes when I turn it off.

[bcg]

My old M20F used to eat landing lights. They only quit when I touched down. I started turning it off on short final and then turning it back on to taxi. 
 
My theory was if the filament was hot and soft, the slightest bump would knock it apart. I can’t explain why the LED lights would fail for the same reason.
BTW, I landed so many times without the landing light on, I still turn it off when I land. The light freaks me out now. It gets the tower excited sometimes when I turn it off.

I don't even fly at night. About 50% of the time, I turn it on when I'm on final. Mine just die. The first one would work sometimes and other times not. Usually, it would not on preflight and then would after flying for a while, I thought it was a wiring issue. I replaced all the wiring and breakers when I redid my panel and it made no difference. This time, it just failed, no intermittent. The only thing I can come up with is vibration is killing it, I'm open to other theories though. It's super annoying because my OCD won't let me just live with it failed even though I don't need it. I like flying a squawk free airplane, it took me 2 years to clear up every one of them after I bought it and I just don't want to start accumulating non-critical squawks again.

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[bcg]

We extrude a u channel seal for the nose bracket light and two seals for the nose light Assy 
one on each side of the flange
ams3320.093 
 
I have not seen your installation 
maybe this would help 

I have a C model (stole this pic of an E, it's the same setup) with the light in the lower right. It's got 2 adjusting screws in the back and has a retaining ring that goes inside the recess right next to the light that's held in with 4 sheet metal screws and tinnerman nuts. Does what you're showing work with that? It looks to me like it's more for the J model where the light is in the center? I may be mistaken though, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

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[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, bcg said:

I don't even fly at night. About 50% of the time, I turn it on when I'm on final. Mine just die. The first one would work sometimes and other times not. Usually, it would not on preflight and then would after flying for a while, I thought it was a wiring issue. I replaced all the wiring and breakers when I redid my panel and it made no difference. This time, it just failed, no intermittent. The only thing I can come up with is vibration is killing it, I'm open to other theories though. It's super annoying because my OCD won't let me just live with it failed even though I don't need it. I like flying a squawk free airplane, it took me 2 years to clear up every one of them after I bought it and I just don't want to start accumulating non-critical squawks again.

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You are probably right. Do they have a warrantee? Maybe you can keep sending them back. Have you tried a different brand? Maybe they would be more robust.

[bcg]

You are probably right. Do they have a warrantee? Maybe you can keep sending them back. Have you tried a different brand? Maybe they would be more robust.

I think it's a year, if I remember right. First one died outside that, this one only lasted 8-9 months. I'm going to see if I can get them to warranty it.

I did get a different brand this time, the problem though is that the Aero is $200 and the Whelen is $400. I'm scared to spend more and end up with the same short life.

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[Fly Boomer]

43 minutes ago, bcg said:

I'm sure a dynamic balance would make a difference, not discounting that at all.  That said, for the sake of argument let's say I'm at .06 or so since I'm not feeling it, shouldn't a $200 PMAed landing light be able to handle that for more than a few months?  Prop balance changes over time anyway so, even if I got it down to .01 in a year it might be .04+ again from prop wear.

I'm thinking that if I can dampen the vibration at the lamp either instead of or in addition to reducing overall vibration, that it will help.  I ordered one of these - https://skygeek.com/whelen-4006300-gasket.html.  Hopefully it helps some, it definitely can't hurt.  

These - https://www.aeroresourcesinc.com/product_category/product_detail/61 - are supposed to reduce wind buffet and help as well, $115 for a piece of acrylic seems expensive though.  If someone else has installed one and can confirm it makes a difference, it would be worth it to save the expense or replacing lamps, I don't want to be the guinea pig for that price though.

I'm no expert, but that doesn't look like a spinner to me.

[bcg]

I'm no expert, but that doesn't look like a spinner to me.

Spinner? In confused.

The first link is a PAR46 sized rubber gasket. Second link, which is broken on the server side right now, is for a piece of clear acrylic that covers the landing light recess to allegedly reduce the wind buffet on the lamp.

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[N201MKTurbo]

At a previous job we did HALT (Highly Accelerated Life Testing) testing on circuit boards. With enough vibration, the surface mount parts start popping off like popcorn.

[Fly Boomer]

4 minutes ago, bcg said:

Spinner? In confused.

The first link is a PAR46 sized rubber gasket. Second link, which is broken on the server side right now, is for a piece of clear acrylic that covers the landing light recess to allegedly reduce the wind buffet on the lamp.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk
 

 

[bcg]

At a previous job we did HALT (Highly Accelerated Life Testing) testing on circuit boards. With enough vibration, the surface mount parts start popping off like popcorn.

I can believe that, I've seen vibration roll properly torqued nuts right off a bolt on heavy equipment.

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[bcg]

 

Ah yeah, their site seems to be having issues. It won't open at all for me at the moment.

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[GeeBee]

One thing you can do if you are using incandescent is to orient the filament vertical. That makes it less susceptible to breaking. The factory did this on the R models and up. It requires cutting a new orientation notch in the retaining ring. That said, do not discount the value of prop balance. It makes everything from avionics to fasteners last longer. I usually get 3-5 years out of a balance.

[Andy95W]

It’s probably heat, vibration, or a combination of the two.  On my 1964 M20C, the exhaust runs very close to the back of my LED landing light.  I put an insulator on the back of the light and also the power wire to protect from the heat.  I leave my landing light on 100% of the time.

 https://www.amazon.com/Peastorm-Automotive-Aluminum-Material-Insulation/dp/B0BX4LHQFV/ref=sr_1_10?crid=3R301M5FCJOXT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.X8-E20apS5KXh8QN_b2ysQPcg-5W6PvzAMLy8BQfSbqvILP4mASqnNseqp2rW4I6j8JqD-oXaF7l1GnwUCJW_8rs5hSXKTElz_sx3pXhjTXnvxSq8NET-NCNiXvSmsbfqhp5Mvq3VtzONdFH5awIGq1UP-Y08o2mWh53k9DWp4YmqpUF6vxB5VlcVWMamJGtJhdA-en1V8bBDbTa2sgWmhu_VJUhTszke-j7AXj2rj4.fFEuNCWLzF4Qz9QR2Im_sMCBTc-MDD44aUslEwS_1UA&dib_tag=se&keywords=car%2Bexhaust%2Binsulation&qid=1757866707&sprefix=car%2Bexhaust%2Binsulation%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-10&th=1

[47U]

4 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I put an insulator on the back of the light and also the power wire to protect from the heat.

I did almost the same, but used a scrap piece of baffle.  Not installed yet in the picture, I ran a .032” safety wire between the screws so the baffle wouldn’t fall off.  (And I replaced the exhaust ball-joint hardware with castellated nuts and cotter pins.)

The landing light lens cover may cure more vibration than you realize.  When previous owner installed the 3-blade McCauley, he didn’t like the vibes.  Had the prop dynamically balanced, still not happy.  Smoothing of the cowling surface with the lens cover is what finally made him happy.

[bcg]

2 hours ago, Andy95W said:

It’s probably heat, vibration, or a combination of the two.  On my 1964 M20C, the exhaust runs very close to the back of my LED landing light.  I put an insulator on the back of the light and also the power wire to protect from the heat.  I leave my landing light on 100% of the time.

 https://www.amazon.com/Peastorm-Automotive-Aluminum-Material-Insulation/dp/B0BX4LHQFV/ref=sr_1_10?crid=3R301M5FCJOXT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.X8-E20apS5KXh8QN_b2ysQPcg-5W6PvzAMLy8BQfSbqvILP4mASqnNseqp2rW4I6j8JqD-oXaF7l1GnwUCJW_8rs5hSXKTElz_sx3pXhjTXnvxSq8NET-NCNiXvSmsbfqhp5Mvq3VtzONdFH5awIGq1UP-Y08o2mWh53k9DWp4YmqpUF6vxB5VlcVWMamJGtJhdA-en1V8bBDbTa2sgWmhu_VJUhTszke-j7AXj2rj4.fFEuNCWLzF4Qz9QR2Im_sMCBTc-MDD44aUslEwS_1UA&dib_tag=se&keywords=car%2Bexhaust%2Binsulation&qid=1757866707&sprefix=car%2Bexhaust%2Binsulation%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-10&th=1

I'll try a heat shield, it certainly can't hurt and heat is just as likely as vibration.  Thanks for the suggestion.