Turbine or diesel

[1964-M20E]

Very cool!   I have not heard of them before.  Unfortunately they do not mention anything about a smaller 200HP version for the J models and older.

[jetdriven]

"It is quite probable that in a short time with the constant progress that is being made in metallurgy and technique, the Diesel motor for aviaton will become a reality."     Popular Aviation and Aeronautics, April 1929

[carusoam]

If an unleaded fuel solution is the requirement, consider the less dashing solution...

The Ovation's Conti IO-550 is certified for unleaded 100 octane fuel.  It's in the POH.

The fleet would be considering Missile status.  I think the Missile may have been a slightly smaller engine, the IO-550 already has the UL rating....

Time for those guys to update the drawings, put two batteries in the back and update the W&B documents...

Or just lease an Ovation....

Some Cirrus and Beach aircraft may have the same engine.  Mr. Brailey (fuel injector fame) may be familiar...

Thoughts?

-a-

[1964-M20E]

The metallurgy and deigns are here.  Now it is just economics, lawyers and the FAA.  The latter two drive the first one up exponentially.

[aviatoreb]

Quote: The-sky-captain

Does anybody know if the subaru boxer diesel has had any use in the experimental department.  It would seem the boxer configuration would be ideal.

[DaV8or]

Can you run a diesel LOP?

[jetdriven]

By design they do.

[kerry]

Here's a website that sells subaru diesel engines. Fitting one of these in a mooney would make an interesting project.

http://www.boxeer.com/

[jetdriven]

At 110 HP, it would be interesting on a Mooney alright.

The Maxwell Subaru gasoline kit might be interesting too.  165HP, from 29K plus installation.

[kerry]

Quote: jetdriven

At 110 HP, it would be interesting on a Mooney alright.

The Maxwell Subaru gasoline kit might be interesting too.

[kerry]

Quote: jetdriven

At 110 HP, it would be interesting on a Mooney alright.

The Maxwell Subaru gasoline kit might be interesting too. 165HP, from 29K plus installation.

[aviatoreb]

Quote: kerry

I was reading they can be tuned to 150 HP. I've noticed that diesel aero engines don't have as much HP as their gasoline counter parts. Is this because of the torque? Does anybody know?

[1964-M20E]

Here is the link to EFII who produces the electronic ignition and fuel injection.  Available from Aircraft Spruce for $5k experimentals only :-((. I figured approximately $6k with installation.

http://www.flyefii.com/EFII_intro.htm

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/ptefii.php

[aviatoreb]

Quote: 1964-M20E

Here is the link to EFII who produces the electronic ignition and fuel injection.  Available from Aircraft Spruce for $5k experimentals only :-((. I figured approximately $6k with installation.

http://www.flyefii.com/EFII_intro.htm

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/ptefii.php

[1964-M20E]

I know the other thread of changing to experimental might be a stretch at this time but maybe we can get the FAA to modify the certification process so that it does not cost manufacturers as much.

 

Perhaps:

1. 
   
2. Something like this system or anything else for that matter once they have it flying on say 10 or 20 experimental aircraft
   
3. Have about 1 to 2k hours aggregate time for all aircraft flying the new system, engine etc.
   
4. Allow private owners to install on their certified aircraft as well under the form 337 process and IA signoff
   
5. After several years and many more hours then it would then get STC status for all certified airplanes.
   

 

Essentially private aircraft owners would assist the manufacturer in testing the new equipment on make and type.  This would lesson the burden of certifying and STC.   We could get new technology quicker and cheaper.  If I were allowed to do this I would install it in a heart beat.  I might need to do a lot of talking with my mechanic but I’d do it.

[DaV8or]

Quote: jetdriven

By design they do.

[jetdriven]

If you add fuel, such as these power tuners do, they quickly raise the EGT and if you overfuel them enough, they will melt down the exhaust and turbo. More fuel = more heat. There is no throttle valve to modulate air.

 

It's just like having a NA Mooney at low altitude or a turbo Mooney. You have the throttle (or turbo MP) set to maximum, and you limit power with fuel flow. Same with a turbine engine really.

[cujet1]

A couple of interesing points.

1) Jet fuel is heavier than Avgas.

2) We fly by weight

3) Modern gasoline aircraft engines (think experimental Lycomings/cont with mods)  are very close in BSFC numbers to modern diesels of similar output. In other words, the HP produced, per hour, per weight of fuel is now extremely similar.

4)  air cooling produces less cooling drag, as less air is required to transfer the BTU's. A 400 degree cylinder head transfers heat much more readily to the air than a 200 degree radiator. The rad requires more airflow.

5) automotive conversions are universally less efficient than a stock Lycoming. One key factor is internal friction. Piston ring swept area is a major friction factor. A large, slow moving piston has considerably less piston ring swept area (and will transfer less combustion heat into the cooling system) than a smaller piston moving faster. (or a larger numer of small pistons moving slowly)

 _______________________________Lyc O-360__Conti O-360__Chevy 350
Bore___________________________5.125______4.438________4
Stroke_________________________4.375______3.875________3.48
 Number of cylinders________________4__________6____________8
 Displacement (in^3)_____________361.01_____359.66_______349.85
 Piston ring swept area (in^2)_____281.76_____324.16_______349.85
Ratio of swept area
to displacement________________0.78_______0.90_________1.00

6) direct drive is also more efficient and safer.

7) the engineers that designed the lowly Lycoming were actually remarkably "on target" with regard to power to weight, reliability and fuel economy. Aircraft engines are better than we give them credit for.

8) Modern technology such as high compression, direct injection, electronic ignition and so on, promise to improve the conventional aircraft engine considerably.