Any issues with Garmin glass and KFC 150?

[shawnd]

11 minutes ago, wombat said:

• Altitude preselect
• Vertical speed

A GAD 43E ($4AMU retail price) can get those enabled even for KFC 150.

[wombat]

6 minutes ago, shawnd said:

A GAD 43E ($4AMU retail price) can get those enabled even for KFC 150.

WHUT?  How would that even work?      Does it send fake pitch attitudes to the autopilot?   Would I never have to press the altitude hold on the autopilot again?   My autopilot would remain in pitch hold mode, and the GAD43 would tell it the pitch is too high, too low, or just right, in order to achieve the desired vertical speed or altitude?

I *have* a GAD43, but I don't know if it's a GAD43E.   I don't know what the differences are.  Some random news release from 2012 says " The enhanced GAD 43e functions as an altitude preselector and vertical speed controller when interfaced to compatible autopilots."

This might be my avionics upgrade for next year's annual!

Reading the Garmin manual at https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01102-02_E.pdf it's still not clear to me.

[wombat]

34 minutes ago, shawnd said:

More and more I am leaning towards the "Keep the KFC option" with G500TXi.

On a separate note, regarding the straight and level button, the KFCs can do the same operation I think in 4 button pushes.

1. Heading button press to align bug to current heading
2. Hit the ALT button on KFC
3. Hit the HDG button KFC
4. Hit the AP button on KFC.

Haven't had an opportunity to try it out but should get your plane to S&L condition. Or are there envelopes beyond which KFC won't engage vs a GFC 500 would?

I agree that you can get 'wings level' with that (assuming you have already engaged the flight director)  but it does include a button press on a different device, so if I was scared and the aircraft was already in an unusual attitude, it might be a challenge.  I think it would be OK to skip picking a heading, just go across the AP...    Flight Director on, altitude hold, heading mode, then autopilot engage.   After that, once the aircraft is under control, set heading to current heading.

 

And yes, I'm sure there is a limit to the range of atitudes that the AP will engage on.   I couldn't find it in the pilot's guide, but I didn't look hard.

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, shawnd said:

A GAD 43E ($4AMU retail price) can get those enabled even for KFC 150.

The jump to Garmin makes me wonder why the King KAS-297b won't work in that environment?

[wombat]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

The jump to Garmin makes me wonder why the King KAS-297b won't work in that environment?

I've heard it's incredibly expensive to install.

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

The jump to Garmin makes me wonder why the King KAS-297b won't work in that environment?

If you already have a KAS-297B installed you still need to keep a KEA-130A encoding altimeter to provide grey code. The GAD43E also allows you to eliminate needing the encoding altimeter.

[Pinecone]

One issue is, if you have issues with your King AP, you will be spending a lot to fix a very old piece of equipment.

Going to GFC-500 means you are likely to not have to be fixing things.

My KAS-297 has issues, but I am not interested in spending several AMU to fix it and they have something else fail.

[Z W]

Had a KAP-150 that started acting up.  Chased problems with it for a couple of years.  When they go bad, they can have some undesirable failure modes.  The last time, about 50% of the time, when you engaged the AP, the right wing wanted to drop 30 degrees.  Not pleasant in IMC or with passengers.  It also would randomly just stop capturing the glideslope on approaches.  Shops were confused.  Some chance it was the old King HSI driving it that was failing.  Not many people wanted to work on either the HSI or the KAP-150, or understood how it all worked, and this was in 2018-2019, I suspect it would be worse now.  Never did figure that one out.

We put in the GFC500.  Huge difference in the way the plane feels to fly.  Reliable.  Easy to use.  Intuitive.  Safe.  Would do it again, despite the cost.

[wombat]

But the original poster's issue isn't that the autopilot isn't working.  It's working just fine and is likely to continue to do so for many years.

[shawnd]

Thanks @Z W for the feedback. Yeah AP going bad is never a good situation. Always a good idea to test AP disconnect procedures during run-up/pre-takeoff check. And yes, seems like GFC500 is loved by everyone :-)

@wombat Yep, hoping mine keeps running esp if the avionics shop can get the setup configured properly. Perhaps a servo IRAN in the future, but that's okay to do.

Based on conversations with the shops, likely will have all the estimates from everyone by next week just in time for April Fool's day.. 

[LANCECASPER]

54 minutes ago, shawnd said:

Perhaps a servo IRAN in the future, but that's okay to do.

I think there are only a handful (or less) of shops authorized to work on Bendix-King servos. Bendix-King re-called all service manuals since they said they were their property.  These shops don't do IRAN - they do overhaul exchanges. Here's an example of the prices:

https://www.mcico.com/servos-and-actuators?manufacturer=5717&purchase_type=Overhaul+Exchange%2CRepair+Only

Overhaul exchange on three servos is roughly the price of the hardware on a GFC500.

[wombat]

@LANCECASPER Not sure what the deal is then, because I sent mine off to a shop for IRAN and they were happy to do it and send it right back to me after replacing a few surface mount components, in perfect working order.

So I came out of this $29,000 cheaper than installing a GCF 500.

[LANCECASPER]

46 minutes ago, wombat said:

@LANCECASPER Not sure what the deal is then, because I sent mine off to a shop for IRAN and they were happy to do it and send it right back to me after replacing a few surface mount components, in perfect working order.

So I came out of this $29,000 cheaper than installing a GCF 500.

Surface mount components on servos? The Bendix-King servos are not "smart" servos. There aren't any processors on the servos themselves.

The entire GFC500 installation can be as low as around $20,000 plus or minus what options you already have and choose. Example: https://avionics-laf.com/collections/installation-specials/products/garmin-gfc500-autopilot-installed

[wombat]

Specifically they said resistors and capacitors.  Regardless, I have found that within the last 2 months, IRAN on a King autopilot pitch trim servo was available.

I don't believe that pulling out a working autopilot to put in a different one is a good use of my money at this time.

Compared to the other quotes I've seen, it seems unlikely that I would actually walk out of any shop with a GFC500 installed for $20k, regardless of their marketing.  I note in particular "Each particular aircraft may require additional labor, repairs, alterations, or parts not included in the above."

[LANCECASPER]

8 minutes ago, wombat said:

Specifically they said resistors and capacitors.  

That sounds more the like the autopilot computer (KC192).

[wombat]

It was the KS-179 Pitch Trim Servo, not the computer.

[ArtVandelay]

[mention=8122]LANCECASPER[/mention]
So I came out of this $29,000 cheaper than installing a GCF 500.

For that much you get a G3X and the GFC 500.

I would know, that’s what I did.

[wombat]

7 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

For that much you get a G3X and the GFC 500.

I would know, that’s what I did.

You got a G3X and a GFC500 *installed* for $29k?     You got an exceptional deal.  The price for the small G3X from Garmin is $9,895 and the GFC 500 is $8,650.   That's a total of $18,545 just for the hardware which leaves $11,455 for install & tax.     

 

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

You got a G3X and a GFC500 *installed* for $29k?     You got an exceptional deal.  The price for the small G3X from Garmin is $9,895 and the GFC 500 is $8,650.   That's a total of $18,545 just for the hardware which leaves $11,455 for install & tax.     
 
 
 

Yep, 100 hours of labor (3 servo installation), but 3 years ago labor rate was lower than today.